Welcome to The Corner Box, where your hosts, David Hedgecock and John Barber, lean into their decades of comic book industry experience, writing, drawing, editing, and publishing. They'll talk to fellow professionals, deep dive into influential and overlooked works, and analyze the state of the art, and business, of comics and pop culture. Thanks for joining us on The Corner Box.

[00:28] David Hedgecock: Hey, everybody. Welcome to The Corner Box. My name is David, and with me, as usual, is my very good friend,

[00:35] John Barber: John Barber.

[00:36] David: John Barber. John, we've got a special guest with us today. Not so special. He's actually been with us a few times. Well, he's still special, but not in the head. Just special, in general.

[00:46] John: Oh, my. Off the rail.

[00:50] David: Anyway, welcome back to the show, Editor-in-Chief of Fun Time Go and all-round fantastic guy, and soon to be a one-man band, John—Chase Marotz. Welcome back, Chase.

[01:01] Chase Marotz: It's good to be here.

[01:02] John: What's the one-man band thing? What does that mean?

[01:03] Chase: David is actually referring to my personal Black Metal project I'm calling Slashed Open. It's in the writing process right now. It's getting pretty weird over here in Portland, Oregon.

[01:13] David: So, John, you should see this logo that Chase has for his new one-man band. The logo is really nice. I told Chase, we’ve got to get this person into comic books.

[01:24] Chase: She's actually a tattoo artist based out of Iceland.

[01:27] David: Man, she's got some great stuff. I was like, “we need more of this in comic books.”

[01:33] Chase: Her Instagram is @Firebloodhole, for anyone curious.

[01:37] David: @Firebloodhole? Man, I don't even know where we're at in 2025. I'm getting too old. So, anyway—San Diego ComiCon, John. How was the show? I didn't go.

[01:47] John: Got to see some friends, see some panels, buy some comics. Yeah. Had a good time.

[01:51] David: You had one or two panels, right? You just had the one?

[01:54] John: Yeah, you know how, when it's—whatever it was—it was Friday, but it was on the wrong side of the hall. There's the side where all the panels are, and then there's the other side. It was at 11:00 AM, and you're like, “here's the excuse. Nobody showed up because of what I just said.” The problem was our opening act. The guy coming on before us was this comic book writer named Brian K Vaughan. It turns out people do show up at that hour, because I get to the thing, […] nuts, and it was packed, but good for him. He deserves it.

[02:25] David: I know this is shocking to hear, but not a big Brian K Vaughan guy.

[02:30] John: Oh, my God. All right.

[02:33] David: What has he done? What's he doing that's so special? I don't know. It's comic books.

[02:38] John: And the TV shows. The movies he wrote.

[02:42] David: So, he packed the house for you, and then you didn't let anybody out of the room. You locked the doors.

[02:46] John: The cool guys stayed. Editor Steve Wacker, who shares my birthday, […] like “How are you doing? Great. Packed house, huh?” And then he leaves, and I’m like, “you’re not even staying?” That was it.

[03:00] David: Well, he's a professional, John. He's got other things he's got to be doing. You can't expect everybody to just drop what they're doing. People are working.

[03:06] John: That's fair.

[03:07] David: Don't take it personal.

[03:08] John: Yeah. A couple more people showed up by the end. It was all right. We had a good time.

[03:11] David: Did you talk about Transformers?

[03:12] John: No. Oh, I did meet Daniel Warren Johnson, though. I did. I was talking to a different artist--we were about to go to lunch, and the next guy coming in for the signing where he was is Daniel Warren Johnson. Somebody says, “hey, this is John,” we shake hands, I'm like, “hey, I used to write Transformers,” and he says, “oh, thank you,” and I was like, “wow.” He said it in a real nice way. It wasn't phony. He wasn't jerky. It seemed like […] was winning all these Eisner’s last year. I was like, “man, I can't even actually be mad at him for anything.”

[03:48] David: You sure he wasn't saying thank you for destroying the Transformers Universe? So, it was easy. […].

[03:54] John: […] look good, is what he meant.

[03:55] David: No, that's not true, John. You did some great work on Transformers over a long period of time. In fact, that Optimus Prime stuff that you did with Kei, that was some chefs kiss stuff, man. I really liked that run, in particular, but there was a lot more than just that, that you did, that was great. Just totally teasing, and of course he's thanking you, because you laid the seeds, the groundwork for a fertile garden for him to tend to when he walked in. Well done. He seems like a genuinely good dude. I've heard him on a couple of podcasts. I think I might have mentioned it on the show. I think he does therapy. He seems kind, and he seems genuinely at peace with himself, in a way that you don't come across too many people, especially in comic books, like that. Well, that's cool. Did you get a sketch from him?

[04:49] John: No, I didn’t.

[04:50] David: Well, what the hell are you doing, man? “Just real quick, Daniel. Could you draw Optimus Prime beating up Megatron on the planet Cybertron, with Bumblebee in the background?”

[05:00] John: I have a picture with […] his arm around me, saying, “you'll always be #1, bud.”

[05:06] Chase: There you go.

[05:10] David: Again, I did not go to San Diego ComiCon. Was there any highlight for you, John?

[05:13] John: I went to a couple of panels with Mark Evanier, including one, accidentally, that I went to, and he happened to be on it, but I intentionally went and saw the Jack Kirby panel, but I also dragged my daughter to the Groo panel, with the misapprehension that, at some point in the panel, there would be a--I don't know--picture of Groo, or something like that, something that would, in some way, introduce the character to someone, and there was not. There were 8 people in there who'd been reading Groo since Destroyer Duck knew what Groo was, but it was Mark Evanier, Stan Sakai, and the new colorist who's been coloring for a few years.

[05:51] David: Oh, she's good.

[05:52] John: She’s really good. Yeah, and then they phoned Sergio Aragones on the panel. So, at one point, you have Sergio talking, with Mark Evanier’s phone up against a microphone, and as my daughter said, it was like watching a Zoom call. Evanier’s showing some funny ComiCon pictures on his phone, and then there's a picture of a cat. So, everybody goes, “show the cat.” So, then you get through a period of just, “this is a cat that used to come to our house.” So, there's all that stuff, but they're hard at work. Sergio is currently drawing the next Groo. This is one of the things that was really nice about it. He and Stan Sakai, I guess, travel together. They're traveling buddies. So, it's just nice when you have these people that have been working the same comic for 40-something years, and--

[06:38] David: They still hang out. That's cool. I didn't know they traveled together, at all. Outside of comic conventions, they hang out. They take a trip to Hawaii together.

[06:47] John: Right. That sort of thing.

[06:48] David: I can't imagine. I don't want to see you in a bathing suit, John. I mean, I adore you, but I don't think I want to see that, and I definitely don't want anybody seeing me, that works in comic books, in a bathing suit. That's the last thing I need anybody to see.

[07:01] Chase: This is why we have a male loneliness epidemic, […] yourselves.

[07:05] John: Are you saying you want me to drop the video?

[07:10] David: I'm just asking that you please put your shirt back on, John. That's all.

[07:14] John: But the highlight of ComiCon, […] I had another hour before I needed to do anything, and I saw there was a Rob Liefeld panel for the 33rd anniversary of Youngblood. That was funny. I was like, “I'll swing by and see how it is,” and I start walking down the hallway, there's a big line, and I'm like, “I don't want to stand in the line. I probably won't get in. Oh, but there's Rob.” So, I said hi to Rob, and he was very excited about Snake Eyes and stuff. I said hi to Rob. Very pleasant.

[07:45] David: Did you ask him for a sketch of Optimus Prime and Megatron?

[07:48] John: I didn’t. He had one on him, actually. It was weird. The traffic flow goes one way. So, I exit, and I walk around, and the line is still wrapping around the side. All right, no. So, I start walking over. I’m like, “man, I'm thirsty. I'm going to go to that cafe I saw open and get a bottle of water.” Nope, it's closed. “Well, I’ll go to the Mrs. Fields Cookies, or whatever it is. Oh, man, that line’s long. What I'll do is, I'll loop back to the pro room and get some water there.” So, I head back, loop around there, get my water, then exit, and I still have to follow the same traffic pattern. So, I go past the Liefeld panel, which no longer has a line. There was just a line to get into the room. There's plenty of room. Everybody got in. So, I go in, and I see the Liefeld panel, and it was delightful. It was Rob Liefeld, Norm Rapmund, Danny Miki, and Marat Mychaels.

[08:36] David: The original Brigade team.

[08:37] John: Yes.

[08:38] David: I think it was Norm Rapmund and Marat Mychaels on the original Brigade.

[08:42] John: Yeah. Rob’s moderating and just telling old stories about Extreme Studios, and he's super excited about it, super excited about those guys, and everybody seems happy, and all fun stuff, and then somebody starts asking this question about, “you know the Badrock statue that you had made,” and then Rob starts answering what seems to be a different question, and then the guy's like, “no, I meant the Badrock statue,” and Rob was like, “hey, I get the question you're asking. I'm answering it,” but again, it was friendly. That sounded more hostile, but that was just the tone. So, he goes into this big story about the Youngblood spaceship that he had built, which I'm sure you're aware of.

[09:19] David: Oh, yeah.

[09:20] John: They had a big, full-sized Youngblood battle cruiser, as seen in the comic, designed by the same guy who made the Badrock statue. He’d done special effects on Jurassic Park, and stuff like that. He's a real Hollywood guy. Still is. I didn't meet him, but there was something--we were nearly working on the same project recently. Anyway, they build this thing, and they wind up taking it to 4 conventions, because according to Rob, it costs $100,000 to move it anywhere, because it needs 3 semi-trucks to haul it wherever it--

[09:51] David: Oh, geez.

[09:54] Chase: Holy cow.

[09:55] David: I remember that thing. It was badass.

[09:58] John: So, he's asking, “did you get to go in it?” Danny Miki was like, “yeah, it was really cool,” and Marat Mychaels’ like, “yeah, sitting in the cockpit was awesome,” and Norm Rapmund's like, “I never saw it.” He’s like, “what?” “Yeah, I had a baby that year, Rob,” and Rob says, “nobody here thinks you made the right decision, Norm.”

[10:18] Chase: Excellent.

[10:17] John: Then this is the part that is really great. Whatever happened to it? So, he eventually, he couldn't afford to take it anywhere. So, a paintball arena in Pomona was interested in purchasing it, and they did, and he said he'd been there recently and had seen it, and it's still there. What's left of it is still there, covered in paint, but you can still see this thing at this paintball arena in Pomona, CA. He said he was going to post it on Instagram, or something. So, anyway, the guy was like, “no, my question was, that Badrock statue. What ever happened with that?” And he goes, “Oh, man. I just posted that on Instagram,” and the guy’s like, “would you ever sell it?” He said, “I don't know,” and the guy goes up, hands him his card, and Rob goes, “the Spawnmobile guy.”

[11:04] David: It was me.

[11:06] John: That’s the guy you got the Spawnmobile from, David.

[11:08] David: That's my broker. Yeah. You didn't know? Surprise. I'm going to own your Badrock statue.

[11:13] John: And that was the punch line I was trying to get to.

[11:16] David: Nice. Chase, how about you, man?

[11:18] Chase: I didn't go to any panels. I had a really nice show, though, just wandering around, connecting with people. I like that show, because it's always a time to see a lot of old friends and people we only see over e-mail, but I caught up with friend of the podcast, Rich Doueck, for a while. That was great. Finally, I met Martin Simmonds for the first time in person. Is it Simmonds or Simmonds?

[11:36] John: Thought it was “Simmonds,” but I guess I don't know.

[11:38] Chase: It's probably Simmonds, but I don't know.

[11:39] David: Let’s go with the Kiss version, for sure.

[11:42] Chase: Well, it ends in a “D,” but no, he was he was great. I got a cool remark on my Dracula hardcover that I will show to you now.

[11:48] John: Oh, wow.

[11:49] David: Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's a good one.

[11:52] Chase: Saw Dunbier, popped over, saw the IDW crew, or at least the ones I still know. Feels like a Ship of Theseus situation, but it's nice to catch up with people. Wandered around with David Mariotte for a while, hung out with him.

[12:04] David: Oh, how is Mr. Mariotte? How's that guy doing?

[12:07] Chase: He's still looking for work after the Boom! thing. So, to listeners of the podcast, he is available, and he is very cool.

[12:15] David: He's a very good editor, and from day one, he was good. So, hopefully somebody picks him up. He's good. I think he's got good chops.

[12:23] Chase: He definitely seemed like he had some irons in the fire and some possibility. So, I’m hoping good fortune to come his way, but it was lovely just walking the floor and browsing back issues with him, and just catching up.

[12:34] David: Nice. So, I think I already mentioned on the podcast, I was in South Carolina. I was nowhere near San Diego, which is funny, because that's where I live. Chase, you left us, headed to the Pacific Northwest.

[12:45] Chase: David, I think you might enjoy Portland, if you just gave it a chance.

[12:48] David: I don't know. I think I'm too old to move again. Well, that's not what we're going to talk about today, John. We're going to finally talk about the thing that we've been talking about talking about, for four podcasts, which is books we're into right now. We haven't done this in a while, John. We’ve got to keep people up to speed on what is hip, and what is not, in the world of comic books, and I have got a really good list of stuff I want to share with you. I've been excited for the last month to try to get to this. We haven't been able to. I'm glad that Chase is with us, because I know Chase always brings it when it comes to interesting, cool stuff. Shall we start with the guest? Chase, you want to go first?

[13:26] Chase: I mean, just talk about something I've read recently and have enjoyed?

[13:29] David: Yeah, exactly that.

[13:30] Chase: Actually, on my way back from Con, and then getting home, finally sat down and read Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees from IDW. That was a charming little book. I actually really liked it.

[13:39] David: Tell us the premise of that one, because I've heard good things about it, but I haven't actually ever heard the high concept.

[13:46] Chase: It's like if a pair of serial killers were having a Cold War in the busy world of Richard Scarry. It's these adorably drawn animal people who all wear clothes and work jobs, but there's a serial killer, who is a popular figure in the town. She goes to the city to hunt, because you don't shit where you eat. So, she's managed to keep her serial killing a secret for 20 years by just going to the big city to hunt and then returning to her charming little town and all of her animal friends, but then another killer starts murdering people in that city. She's worried the resulting heat will expose all of her nefarious activities. So, it becomes this cat and mouse game, of her trying to figure out who the serial murderer is, as the police are also trying to figure out who this other serial murderer is. It was a real page-turner. Just really lovely drawings, darkly funny. I think the only thing that upset me, actually, and I think it's more on the state of the market, is this felt like something that I wish could have been a continuing series, like a miniseries, but I easily feel like there was a lot more storytelling, and I know there's going to be a sequel. I guess, if your biggest complaint is “man, I would have really loved this to be twice as long,” that's usually an indicator that you like the book, and yeah, I enjoyed it. I’m excited for the sequel.

[14:59] John: […] Patrick Horvath, when I was talking to Dave Baker.

[15:01] David: No, archenemy of the show, Dave Baker. He's no longer a friend of the show. There's now our archenemy. So, it's a massive heel turn. It's a long story, but Dave Baker, he's persona non grata around here. He's no longer a friend of the show. Archenemy of the show. The first archenemy the show, actually.

[15:16] Chase: I’ll have to ask you about this later.

[15:17] David: I don't think Dave knows that he's an archenemy of the show. For some reason, Dave got on the text chain that John and I use to talk about the podcast. So, Dave knows everything about the podcast, all the time, but never comes on.

[15:30] John: We talked about that, by the way, which is, I don't know if that's exactly Dave's perspective on that text chain, or even in fully mine. You and I could just text each other. We could do that and just talk and not talk to Dave about that stuff, and just talk to Dave about other stuff that he likes being on the text chain about.

[15:48] David: I don't know. I like the fact that we've pulled him in and he's involved, even though he doesn't really have anything to do with it. I like that. I don't know. I'm always entertained by the fact that we use that particular text thread to talk about the show, even though Dave hasn't been on for a year. Anyway.

[16:07] Chase: I feel like you just described my relationship with my family group text message chain. “Not particularly involved but forced to deal with it.”

[16:15] David: Yeah, that's what it is. It's me and John talking, and Dave’s just forced to listen. Although, I feel like, while you were on vacation, John, I did a pretty good job of entertaining Dave. I sent some pretty good stuff over that text chain that was non-podcast related.

[16:28] John: I still get them when I'm on vacation.

[16:31] David: You do? You get texts on vacation? I didn't know that's how that worked. All right. So, Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees. It's not a Five Nights at Freddy's kind of thing, right?

[16:41] Chase: The art style and the narrative are comically at odds with each other.

[16:46] John: It's like Animal Crossing meets Dexter, right?

[16:48] Chase: I think the Busy World of Richard Scarry is a great analog. All of these animals just wearing human clothes, having human jobs, and speaking human language, in a city where other animals also exist. Animals exist in this animal world. There's a butcher shop where they eat actual pork. Just beautifully drawn, and just a very clever, bouncy little mystery.

[17:08] John: Human language? Whoa. […] Nationalist jumping in there, right there. I guess, English is human language, and everything else is what, Chase? What are you getting at?

[17:17] Chase: I don't know.

[17:21] David: John, how about you? What's on your plate recently that you're consuming and enjoying?

[17:25] John: I'm going to call an Audible, because I had a whole bunch of stuff planned for a while, but I feel like I'm out of step if I'm not doing something a bit newer. I’m going to pull up this one that I picked up at ComiCon. It's Goes Like This by Jordan Crane.

[17:40] Chase: Oh, it looks cool.

[17:41] John: It's like if you had a hardcover and you tore off the hardcover part, and you just have—

[17:45] David: Interesting.

[17:46] John: It looks real flimsy, but it's not. It's how books are made. It's very weird. There's different paper stocks bound into it at different points. Collection of Jordan Crane’s short stories with some illustrations, or with some art pages. This definitely seems like if this doesn't win an Eisner for best design, I don't get it. This is so ostentatious, in terms of design, that it's absurd. If the main function of design is to make you want to read the book, I don't know that it succeeds, because it really looks like the book's about to fall apart. Even thumbing through it, you get the impression that it's not actually a comic book, when it is, for the most part, but anyway, do you guys know Jordan Crane’s stuff?

[18:25] David: No, I’m not familiar.

[18:26] John: Years ago, he had an anthology series called NON, and there were I think 5 issues that were published. There used to be, in the late 90s, early 2000s, at ComiCon, you might have an indie book that would come out that everybody would have on the indies, and the people at all interested in indie comics would have this thing, and one of the NONs was a silk-screened box that you opened up, and then inside of it were a bunch of small comics, comics of different size. It was a box full of different books, and that was absolutely amazing. I have a copy of it somewhere, I hope. I don't know where it is. Hopefully, it's in my dad's attic somewhere, or something, but I was talking to […] Fantagraphics when I was buying this book. This is from Fantagraphics. He was like, “oh, yeah, we’ve got a copy of that at the office.” Jordan Crane’s continued to do comics, just regular comic books. He's been writing and drawing over the years.

Most of the stories are New Yorker-style stories, slice of life stuff, Raymond Carver-y scenes from a life that imply a greater […] Was just astoundingly, “wow, I get that.” I totally get that about this guy who has a grandchild, his marriage isn't going really well, his daughter shows up, and he doesn't really know everything that's going on, not out of him having any mental problems--just not knowing everything that's going on in people's lives, and then him being reckless with the grandkid, but not really. It was all this stuff there, just like, “oh, man. It totally hits home. Totally stuff that I’ve lived through.” Some of the other ones are extremely surreal or science fiction-y. It jumps all over the place. This is a really nice collection of these short stories. I thought it was super interesting. The format’s astounding. It's really interesting.

[20:12] David: It reminds me of something I used to do back in the day, which is certainly not what they're probably doing here, but when we used to publish all the DreamWorks Animation comic books, I would overprint the comic book by more than the standard 5-10%. I would overprint by about 15-20%, and then we would take the overprints, and we would pull the covers off and grind the spine just a little bit to remove the saddle stitch, and then glue those into a binding, and that was the trade paperback. So, I was printing the guts of the trade paperback, at the same time, I was printing the comic book.

[20:50] John: Diamond did some editions of that. I have a Youngblood and a RoboCop VS Terminator that are that.

[20:56] David: Oh, really?

[20:57] John: Well, I think they had the covers. They didn't even take the covers out.

[21:01] David: Oh, they didn't? We would design the interior so that it would work as a comic book, and as the trade paperback.

[21:06] John: The outside is very thick, and then you get into these bright, white, glossy pages, and then the next story is all on yellow, thin paper.

[21:14] David: That's what made me think about it, is the different paper stocks. “I wonder if he's just taking comic books and throwing them into a—"

[21:21] John: I think it's designed to look like that.

[21:25] Chase: I feel like you've just sold me a copy of that book. I'm such a sucker for very bespoke, interesting paper stocks and design choices. I'm all the way in.

[21:34] John: The thing I was worried about, just flipping through it, it looked like a lot of illustration art, and that's neat, but I'm like, “this is going to be a pretty quick read.” I’ve still got to get it, but it's not. It's pretty substantial, and the comic stuff is very moving and well done, and it is most of the book. It just doesn't look like that when you flip through it.

[21:50] David: That's a good first choice. I don't know why you're worried about picking stuff that's old, because that's what we do here, and also, that's exactly what I'm going to do right now. This is my first choice. So, over the last month or two, I've been stretching my wings a little bit, in terms of artists who I've been exploring and looking at--new artists, I should say. I'll constantly look out for artists, but I've been like, “who are the people right now who are interesting and have an interesting voice?” And I wish we had talked about this a couple weeks ago, because the first book I wanted to talk about was Helen of Wyndhorn, by Tom King, Bilquis Evely, Matheus Lopes, and Clayton Cowles. So, it's a great story. I think that this, for the art side of things, is a masterclass in atmospheric storytelling. This book won the Eisner, I think, for--was it best artist or best miniseries, or something like that? I can't remember what they won the Eisner for, but this book, particularly, won an Eisner, and it was very well deserved.

I think Bilquis Evely, with this book--I know she's done stuff before. I think she's done some Wonder Woman stuff over at DC. I think she's been around the industry for a little bit, but this, for me, was just a moment where she put her stamp on the industry, in a way that was quite impressive. With this book, she's melding Gothic architecture and pulp fantasy action, and just a really amazing level of emotional nuance to the acting of the characters. The line work is so expressive and detailed, and lush, and she's using a couple of different techniques, but in particular, she'll step out, in some places, and she's doing a little bit of dry brush technique. I'm always a sucker for that. That Dave Stevens dry brush is just--give me that all day long, and she does a little bit of it in here. Just a masterclass in art and storytelling, and just classic stuff, and then Matheus Lopes, the colorist, was a fantastic choice for her work, because he or she--I'm assuming it's a he--just complements her style just perfectly on every page.

I wasn't super into the story. The story from Tom King was fine. It actually felt a little bit like a book that I talked about recently—Reborn. It felt a little bit like that, in some ways, where you have a real-world person thrust into a fantasy world realm, and takes actions there, but in this book, Helen of Wyndhorn, Helen is able to go back and forth between the “real world” and this fantasy world that she lives in with her father, from time to time. The father can go back and forth as well. I wasn't super into this story, but boy, the art just carries the day. Could not recommend Bilquis Evely's work higher, in this particular project. I went from not really being familiar with her work to being a massive fan of what she's doing. Can't say enough about how much I enjoyed the art, in this particular piece. So, that's my first one. Eisner Award-winning Helen of Wyndhorn. I've got the hardcover, which was a good deal. So, I felt like I really got a good 6 issues worth of material, and I just devoured it, man. I devoured it in a day or two, and then went back through. and just looked at all the pretty pictures. Really love it. So, that's my first one.

[25:20] Chase: Nice.

[25:21] John: Have you read Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow?

[25:23] David: No, but it's on my list. I do want to read it. It was her and Tom King on that, right?

[25:27] John: Yeah, I think they did that, and then they did this one.

[25:30] David: And I've heard good things about that Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, and isn't that the version that was in the new Superman movie, or something like that?

[25:38] John: Supposedly, the Supergirl movie is based on that graphic novel. I've never read either one of them, either. I mean, I know her work from the Wonder Woman covers, and stuff. I very nearly read a Supergirl, at one point, and then got sidetracked by something else. It was one of those things. Those are the highest on my list of things to come home with at ComiCon that I did not come home with. I actually couldn't find Helen of Wyndhorn in there, but I may have been looking in the wrong places, at some point, because I might have just been looking in paperbacks. That was one that I think people were picking up.

[26:10] David: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it was getting sold out. Usually that happens with the Eisner winners. I can only imagine that between the word getting out that their version of Supergirl being in the Superman movie, and Helen of Wyndhorn winning the Eisner, that was probably a good sales weekend for those books. So, I'm not surprised if you couldn't find them. So, anyway. That was my first one. I'm just a massive Bilquis Evely fan now. I'm excited to see what she does next, and I'm definitely going to jump back in and read some of her previous stuff. I hope she continues to do interiors. I don't know how long it took her to do this book, but it looks like it would have taken forever to get this book done. I mean, the level of detail in this thing is just gorgeous. Chase, you got another one in your pocket?

[27:01] Chase: Yeah, round two. I mean, I'm only a third of the way done with it. So, he certainly has the chance to fumble the ball on me, but I've picked up Ginseng Roots by Craig Thompson. His newest collection.

[27:10] David: Nice.

[27:12] Chase: I bought that book to take down to SDCC, because he was there on Sunday, and I knew I wanted to get it signed, because Blankets had been huge for me. It was originally published as little single issues, and I've been picking up some of those, as it came out, but just with life and moving, and everything, I never finished the book. So, I sat down over the weekend and just restarted it, and it's really lovely. He's one of those artists whose work is just super detailed. I mean, his page layouts are very innovative, and I think he gets a lot of comparison to Will Eisner, I think, very fairly, just in terms of the way he sees a comic page, and how critical elements of the art move you along, without being subject to the panel structure, although he uses that to great effect, too. What I like about this one is, it's very much a return to memoir, which I think he's good at, and then it's also this very interesting history of ginseng farming in America, and how there's this one small town that was doing all of it. It's a history of his family in ginseng farming. It's a history of this town in ginseng farming, and some of it is just a history of applications of ginseng itself.

So, it's a book I've been spending a lot of time with, just thinking about the concepts, and stuff, and I don't know. It's neat, too, because there are scenes of his family reacting to Blankets, and hanging out with his parents, who were not portrayed very well in that book, and how they feel about it. So, I think in this book, he's letting people, who've been characters in some of his past work, have their say, which is cool to see. No, I've really liked it, so far.

[28:38] David: I still, once a year, we'll pull out Good-bye, Chunky Rice, and just have a good cry. That book makes me cry every time I read it, and it's one of my favorites. Good-bye Chunky Rice by Craig Thompson is the book that I give to non-comic book people to read as “if you want to try comic books, start here,” depending on who the person is. In general, that's one of the very first ones I'll throw in somebody's hands. I’ve probably bought 20 copies of that book over the years, because I just give it away, and I just always get another one.

[29:10] Chase: He was very lovely in person, too. I mean, his line took a really long time, just because he did a remark for everyone, without being asked. He just asked people questions and seemed very interested, not in just his fans’ reaction to his work, but just, “who are you? What brought you here? What are you doing?” He was a very easy, fun person to talk to.

[29:30] David: That's nice to hear. That's not always the case. That's good.

[29:33] Chase: No, exactly. Sometimes, you're worried. Sometimes, they say, “never meet your heroes,” but my interaction with Craig Thompson was just a joy, and I think everyone who waited in that line, I think, had the same experience.

[29:44] David: Did he pull out wad of ones?

[29:47] Chase: Of sweaty money? No.

[29:48] David: And thrust it in your hand, and tell you to go buy him coffee.

[29:51] Chase: No, he unfortunately did not pull a Bisley. Although, I would have done it, but do you guys know Matt Dunford?

[29:56] David: No.

[29:57] Chase: He does San Diego Comic Fest, and stuff. He's a San Diego comics guy. I only know him tangentially, because he was at Scott's IDW going-away party. I think Ryall knows him, but he was in line right behind me, and we were both wearing Hawaiian shirts that day.

[30:12] David: I don't know what that means.

[30:14] Chase: We were just two comic guys, of a similar physical build, wearing Hawaiian shirts.

[30:17] David: Was Scott Shaw the third in line behind you?

[30:20] Chase: No, I didn't look back that far. That's my second one. I'm looking forward to continuing it later. Ginseng Roots.

[30:26] David: Yeah, it's definitely on my list. That's already on my list, but I'll move it up a little higher, I think.

[30:31] John: I've read some of the issues when it came out. I think it came out a little sporadically, and I just couldn't keep track of it.

[30:38] Chase: It took 3 or 4 years, and what I like about the hardcovers, those issues were the little zine-sized issues, but the bigger hardcover, I think, really allows the art to shine.

[30:47] John: Oh, cool. Here's another one I picked up. This Place Kills Me, by Mariko Tamaki and Nicole Goux. Two years ago, I was really into the last Mariko--Well, both the Tamaki--but the last Mariko Tamaki one. There are actually two books that I got that weren't out yet. The other one was the Chip Kidd/Michael Cho Avengers graphic novel from Abrams Comics art, and I always feel like those Abrams Comics art books are 5 degrees away from being a lot better than they are. Not always, but I frequently find that. Although, I did find out that something I thought was an Abrams Comic art thing was just a different Abrams book. So, I don't know. Maybe I'm full of shit, but this one, This Place Kills Me, I really enjoyed. This is like what you were talking about, with Craig Thompson, it really engaged with the medium of comics, in a constructive and interesting way that helped tell the story. I don't know.

I was really thinking about that, during it, especially. There's a lot of just full-page shots or sequences, just broken up differently, and I feel like that's something you see with a lot of comics that Mariko Tamaki is writing, but usually, it's her sister that's drawing those. You don't see that as much, when she was doing the Casey Jones limited series, or something. She's one of those writers that’s just all over the place, in terms of capabilities that she has, and stories that she's telling, and this is the most like something with her sister. Although, it comes out completely differently, of the stuff that I had seen, where I felt like it was hard to tell how something like this could be written, and how much of it was drawn.

[32:14] Chase: Yeah, totally.

[32:15] John: I feel like this is a weird thing to ask. We should have Nicole on here sometime. We've certainly talked about it, and then just never managed.

[32:22] David: Yeah, we definitely do. Maybe that's our next guest, John. We should have Nicole on.

[32:25] John: She has a book coming out later this month. The text is copyright Mariko Tamaki, and the illustrations are copyright Nicole Goux. What does that mean? Can Nicole do other material with these characters, as long as they don't speak?

[32:38] David: It's the whole Stan Lee/Jack Kirby Silver Surfer graphic novel. That's exactly how it was in that one. Oh, no, it wasn't. No, it was just copyright both of them. It wasn't specific to the illustration or the prose.

[32:50] John: I don't mean to say that's an unusual thing. I think there’s probably 100 graphic novels you can find like that, but it's just funny that something where the […] blends so well, the copyrights are different. What would that even mean? This is a bugaboo of mine, but I don't think Nicole is illustrating anything. I don't think that that is what an illustration is, and I don't think that's what she's doing, and it always seems weird to describe it that way, to me, that an illustration’s something different.

[33:17] David: That's published by a non-comic book publisher, right?

[33:21] John: Yeah, it's a Abrams Fanfare.

[33:22] David: Yeah, Abrams. So, I mean, it probably has something to do with just the business side. That is odd, though.

[33:31] John: They're legitimate comic book artists who call what they do illustrating, and that's why I don't have a moral problem with people doing that, but I just don't think that's what it is.

[33:40] David: I'm excited to see Nicole's latest outing. I feel like she was primed to level up again.

[33:47] John: Yeah. It's great to see her with a good writer.

[33:53] David: Take that, enemy of the show, Dave Baker.

[33:57] John: It's actually funny. Parts of it actually reminds me a bit of Halloween Boy, just in the limited palette. There are pieces in there where I'm like, “that looks like a Dave face,” but there's probably the two of them just feeding off of each other, and each of them having pieces of that in their stuff.

[34:11] David: I’ve got to imagine that, creatively, they're sharing back and forth quite a bit. Dave’s probably secretly going into her place and drawing faces in panels just to—

[34:20] John: Oh, in the background, just ruining it?

[34:22] David: Yeah. Throw her off.

[34:23] John: The story set in the, I think, late 80s at a boarding school in America, about as far from Harry Potter as you could possibly be. A girl playing Juliet in the school play is found dead, and this other girl, who's an outcast there and came there under shady circumstances, and that you uncover as the story goes on, she's not exactly suspected, but suspected she had something to do with it, which she didn't, and it's from her point of view, trying to figure out what actually happened. So, it's a mystery, but it's very much just about the emotional lives of the students involved.

[35:05] David: I'm in. Got some books to buy. That’s a good one, John. Thank you.

[35:11] John: We've been going on for a while. Why don't we take a break here and come back next week, guys?

[35:15] David: That sounds a great idea, John.

[35:17] Mickey Mouse: That sounds great, Mr. Barber.

[35:18] David: Who let Mickey Mouse in here?

[35:19] John: Wow. Yeah. We'll be back next week for the rest of this incredible talk with David and Chase, and me. Bye.

[35:26] David: Bye.

Thanks for joining us, and please subscribe, rate, and tell your friends about us. You can find updates, and links at www.thecornerbox.club, and we’ll be back next week with more from David, and John, here at The Corner Box.