Welcome to The Corner Box with David Hedgecock and John Barber. With decades of experience in all aspects of comic book production, David, John, and their guests will give you an in-depth and insightful look at the past, present, and future of the most exciting medium on the planet—comics—and everything related to it.

[00:24] John Barber: Hello, and welcome back to The Corner Box. I'm one of your hosts, John Barber, and with me, as always, my good friend,

[00:31] David Hedgecock: David Hedgecock.

[00:32] John: And we're smooth sailing into Season 3 now.

[00:37] David: Yeah, baby.

[00:38] John: Now we know what we're doing.

[00:40] David: We know exactly what we're doing, John. A lot of nothing. You'd think, John, after two full seasons of talking to one another, every single week, for two years, essentially, about comic book stuff, that we would have started running out of ideas of things to talk about by now, but come to find out, that's not true, at all, John. We have millions of things that we want to be talking about. They've just all escaped our brain, just for the moment, though, but it's going to be fine. Should we throw certain people under the bus right now? I feel like I'm ready to throw, John.

[01:15] John: You're ready to throw special guest, Kirt Burdick, under the bus.

[01:19] David: Oh, you did it. I was just kidding. I wasn't really going to throw Kirt under the bus. You totally did. We're very excited to have Kirt Burdick on the show. I'm sure we'll have him on soon. We're hoping that he's okay, but he's not on the show, everybody. I don't know if we teased that Kirt was going to be on the show, but if we did, my apologies. Our apologies.

[01:36] John: We teased it to be this season, not this week, because it took me by surprise that it was going to be this week, but in a happy way.

[01:42] David: There you go. All right, let's get into it. So, we're going to talk about some comic books, John. Literally, in front of me, I've got 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 comic books that I've been totally into, recently, that I'm dying to talk about, and it does have something to do with what we talked about last week, the first episode ever of Season 3.

[02:00] John: The Force Awakens of Season 3. This is something I wanted to bring up, not to delay what you're going to talk about, but I think, to frame this, or bring this back in, because I've been thinking about what we were talking about, and I made the Force Awakens joke. Have you ever seen the film, Star Wars?

[02:17] David: It rings a bell. I feel like, probably, at some point, I might have seen something about that. There's a battle in space, and there's--

[02:24] John: That's the one.

[02:25] David: I've seen it.

[02:26] John: We may have just been talking about Star Wars, but this is something that got me thinking about this. If you're trying to figure out when we're taping this, this will throw you off. I just finished watching Andor last night, way after I should have. It's been out for a while. So, I finished watching Andor. I was thinking about this, in terms of Star Wars, but also in terms of everything we talked about last week. One of the things that happens with individual media properties, and sometimes media, in general, is that when they continue for a really long time, there becomes a fundamentalist version of what you're trying to do, where your rules are constrained by the thing that you're basing it on, or the thing that originated it. Whereas the original thing had influences from all over the place.

So, when you look at Star Wars, it's actually fascinating, if you start to really unpick all the things that “it's just a combination of,” and then you start laying all those things out, and you could do that for an hour. There's just a lot of stuff that it is, actually. It's only just made out of World War 2 movies, and Kurosawa movies, and Flash Gordon, and Dune, and Westerns, and it just keeps going, even though it wears a lot of its influences very much on its sleeve. Eventually, you get to a point where you get to something, like The Force Awakens, where The Force Awakens’ influences were Star Wars, and maybe Empire Strikes Back, and I enjoyed Force Awakens. I'm not trying to poop on anybody's parade here, but it's interesting to see something come in, like Andor did, where its influences are not Star Wars. Its influences are other-- It was cool to see whatever the second sequel movie was—I can't remember which one that was, or Mandalorian, which I really enjoy, especially the beginning of Mandalorian. We were just talking about that, and that one went back, and was like, “here's influenced by other samurai movies. There's a bit of the influence of Lone Wolf & Cub, and then here's the episode that's straight-up Seven Samurai.”

[04:24] David: Straight-up, and I loved it.

[04:26] John: Yeah, and actually, when you go back to the Star Wars comic books, the first story they did was Seven Samurai.

[04:32] David: That was the first story that they did, after they did the adaptation, right?

[04:35] John: You didn't have Star Wars, yet. You had the movie. You didn't have the rhythm of what the whole thing was going to be, which I'd say, you probably didn't really have that until Return of the Jedi, which was—its big influences were Star Wars, and Star Wars toys. I will say that, whatever you say about the prequel trilogy, George Lucas is nuts, and it was its own stuff. The prequel trilogy did not only rehash Star Wars—although it did rehash Star Wars. Anyway, the reason this relates to what we were talking about is, looking at comic books, or superhero comic books, or something, you get into a state where they're influenced by other superhero comics, to the exclusivity of everything else.

If you go back to Superman, it's another one. You can pull it apart, and it's got Doc Savage's Fortress of Solitude, and it's got the name, Superman, or the concept from--

[05:24] David: Nazi Germany. No?

[05:26] John: No.

[05:27] David: Too soon?

[05:28] John: Yeah, probably. There was a book adapted into comics by, I think, Howard Chaykin and Gil Kane was Legend, but that wasn't the name of the book—I'm blanking on it, but it was a superpower guy story called Reign of the Superman. It was about a bad guy, Superman, basically, and then he took the name from the thing that he was influenced by, this bad guy Superman story, turned it into Superman that we all know and love, and whatnot.

[05:51] David: That part of history has completely escaped me. I didn't know that.

[05:54] John: Yeah.

[05:55] David: What was the name of the book? Reign of the Superman?

[05:57] John: Oh, hold on.

[05:58] David: While you're looking that up, I want to digress back to Star Wars. Hopefully, I don't throw things off, but I've just been reading, recently, the original Star Wars comic books from Marvel, from the 70s. It's really fun, man. It's really interesting, because the first six issues of the original Marvel comic books were an adaptation of the movie, but they were adapting the movie before the movie was out. So, they were pulling it from the scripts that they had. It seems like the scripts must have been pretty locked, because by and large, what happens in the comic books is what you saw in the movies, but there is one glaring difference. I'm sure everyone knows about it, but I've never encountered it before, which was Luke had a best friend, in the script, and the best friend plays a prominent part throughout all six issues. He has moments of influence within the comic book. That character doesn't exist, at all, in the movie.

[06:57] John: Well, not quite, though. This is Biggs, right?

[07:00] David: Oh, okay. I don't recognize Luke having a best friend in the movie, at all.

[07:04] John: It's Biggs, right?

[07:04] David: Yeah.

[07:05] John: So, when I was a kid, the thing I saw the most, with Star Wars, was the Star Wars Storybook, which likewise was based on the screenplay, or the first version of Star Wars. Very famously, George Lucas's wife, who was the editor of Star Wars, should be given a lot of credit for the editing that went into Star Wars, to make that movie what it is, and there was a well-known screening, I guess, where it was Spielberg, Coppola, all the USC film guys from that era, all saw the first print of Star Wars, and gave notes, and a lot of stuff didn't work. The opening of Star Wars was basically American Graffiti. Luke's this hot-rod guy on Tatooine, and you see him make his way to Atashi Station, and it's a bar. You can find these scenes online. They shot them. They had them in the movie. They still exist They've been released, in certain ways, and yeah, Biggs is his friend.

He's joined the Imperial Navy, but he confides in Luke that he's going to run off and join the Rebellion, and then when Luke gets to Yavin in the end, Biggs is there. They reunite, and then they go off, and fight, and what's left in the movie, in the original version of it, is the scene where Luke's being chased by a TIE fighter during the trench run, and he's calling out for Biggs to help him, and Wedge comes in, and blows the thing away, and then it's Luke, Wedge, and Biggs that fly in together, at the end, into the trench. Wedge gets hit, and flies off, and then he continues to be in the movies from then on, but Biggs gets blown up, and Luke's really affected by, “we lost Biggs,” which doesn't really make sense, if you don't know the backstory that they're best friends, and it's just some guy that he met 15 minutes earlier. Although, to be fair, he obviously takes things really seriously, because Princess Leia, whose planet blew up, killing her father, her mother, all of her friends, and everything she knew about the world, consoles Luke for the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi, who he met about maybe 36 hours earlier.

[09:15] David: She's a cold-hearted bitch.

[09:17] John: And I know this, because I just watched Star Wars with my son. In the current version of Star Wars that's on Disney Plus, the version that's got the awful second--this is the other thing that was in the comic, because you can see the scene with Jabba the Hutt, but Jabba the Hutt looks nothing like Jabba the Hutt.

[09:33] David: Yeah, nothing like him.

[09:35] John: That awful scene, Harrison Ford and the second version of the CG Jabba the Hutt, and this scene that just reiterates what the previous scene had said, almost word for word, because they shot the other scene when they couldn't do the Jabba the Hutt stuff--the scene with Greedo. Anyway, it's got that. So, you have to put up with that crap, and you have to put up with all the stuff in Mos Eisley that looks really not very good anymore. They do have a scene in the end, where Luke sees Biggs, and you learn that this is Luke's friend that he knew that had run away, which I think is a great compromise, that it keeps the beginning the way it is, where you're following the droids, and then get introduced to Luke, instead of being introduced to Luke and his friends, and then have them run into the droids. There we go. Hey.

[10:26] Kirt Burdick: Hey. Sorry, I fell asleep.

[10:29] John: Oh, no.

[10:30] David: Living that artist’s life. Look at you.

[10:32] John: Listeners, this is what you can expect from Season 3. It never lets up. Twists, turns.

[10:37] David: Shocks and surprises.

[10:43] John: While Kirt’s getting water--to tie a bow on the very last bit that we left hanging, the novel was called Gladiator. It was by Philip Wylie, and Howard Chaykin and Russ Heath did an adaptation for it for Wildstorm.

[10:52] Kirt: Oh, really?

[10:53] David: That's why.

[10:55] Kirt: […] adaptation. I didn't know they did an adaptation of that.

[10:58] John: Yeah. I remember it not being great, but I could be wrong about that. This was in maybe 2005-ish, somewhere around there. So, it's real late Russ Heath work.

[11:10] Kirt: Oh, okay.

[11:11] David: Kirt, welcome to the show. Everybody, this is Kirt Burdick. Death of Power’s Kirt Burdick.

[11:18] Kirt: That's right. Jumpscare Kirt Burdick.

[11:26] David: You should feel honored. You are the first guest that the Corner Box has ever had in Season 3. The last episode was Episode 1 of Season 3, and this is Episode 2 of Season 3, and you are our first guest ever in Season 3. Even though you've been on the show at least three other times, it's a first appearance, Kirt. This is going to be a valuable collectible for podcast listeners. This is very valuable. You've got a new costume, you've got a new rebel attitude, you're just showing up whenever you feel like it, and it looks like you've got some facial hair now, potentially.

[12:00] Kirt: I haven't shaved.

[12:02] David: Oh, we can sell that. It's this new rebel Kirt Burdick for Season 3. I like it. So, welcome to the show, Kirt. What have you been up to, man?

[12:14] Kirt: I've been doing a bunch of conventions. I did one up in Portland. I did Rose City. Last weekend, I did a Small Press Expo. So, I've been going around, trying to sell my comics.

[12:28] David: How's that going?

[12:29] Kirt: It's been going good. Both Cons were pretty good. Definitely had fun and talked to a lot of different people. At Rose City, I saw Michel Fiffe. So, that was cool, because I'm a big fan of his work.

[12:41] David: Is that the first time you've met him in person?

[12:43] Kirt: Yeah. He's just a really sweet guy, and I gave him a set of Death of Power, and he seemed to appreciate it.

[12:53] David: Was he aware of your work?

[12:54] Kirt: Maybe. He is now. I forced it on him. “I'll take one. I'll do a trade,” and I'm like, “no, no,” and I forced all seven.

[13:05] David: Nice.

[13:06] John: You don't introduce yourself with “[…] know who I am?”

[13:12] Kirt: I actually walked behind the tables, behind him, and handed it to him.

[13:17] David: Over his shoulder?

[13:18] Kirt: Yeah.

[13:19] David: So, he didn't see you coming?

[13:20] Kirt: No, he was a little scared too.

[13:22] David: Yeah, that's not creepy at all, Kirt.

[13:26] Kirt: It's my new marketing campaign.

[13:27] David: Is that your new move, just popping up out of nowhere?

[13:31] Kirt: I don't know.

[13:31] David: Kirt, you're the perfect comic book guy. Just awkwardly introducing yourself, and then saying some weird random stuff about a comic book, and then just walking away, awkwardly, without really […].

[13:42] Kirt: […] stereotypes.

[13:43] David: Yeah, no, that's me. You're not alone. I say it with love, Kirt, because I am that guy. I only understand you, because I understand myself so much. So, Rose City-- I've never been to that one. That was a good show?

[13:56] Kirt: Yeah, it was a good show. There was moments that felt slow. So, I was getting a little concerned, because this is the first time I did two traveling shows, one week after the other. It just worked out that way, because I got into these Cons I wasn't expecting.

[14:12] David: Were you a guest at the show, or did you buy a table?

[14:15] Kirt: I bought a table. At both, I had a table. That's a whole different experience, I imagine, if you're actually a guest.

[14:23] David: I wouldn't know.

[14:24] Kirt: Yeah, I wouldn't know. That's where you get the private bathroom.

[14:30] David: I don't know. John could tell us.

[14:32] John: They lost my luggage, and the people gave me a T-shirt. So, I had something to wear at the convention.

[14:37] David: That was probably more for their own--

[14:41] John: […] literally walked in with […].

[14:42] Kirt: I was really worried about that, especially going to Bethesda, Maryland.

[14:48] David: About not having clothes?

[14:49] Kirt: No, I'm fine being naked.

[14:52] John: Well, if you didn't have your comics to sell.

[14:55] Kirt: It was the comics. They'd be in my case.

[14:58] John: That does hurt your sales, when you only have your carry-on with you.

[15:02] Kirt: Yeah.

[15:03] David: You know what we discovered last week, Kirt?

[15:05] Kirt: What's that?

[15:06] David: Is that if you don't have money to print the comics, it will affect sales. We worked through that last week, and we figured that out.

[15:12] Kirt: So, it was just such a crazy period. I finished the Kickstarter for Issue #7. I ordered those books in early, and I just guesstimated how many I needed, based on previous ones, and I ordered a little bit less, and I ended up having to reorder after the Kickstarter, because I got a little bit more orders from a couple stores, and from a couple other people on the Kickstarter. They ordered some back issues. So, I had to reorder some of the new issue, and that was fine. I got those in time, but I was mailing everything out right before I had to leave, and I had to order a bunch of back issues, for #1 through, I think, #6, or #1 through #5. There's one of those I didn't need to order, and I just had those delivered up in Portland, and then I got them up there, and it was just such a mess. Oh, my God, and right before I left, I came down with f*cking COVID. I thought we were over that.

[16:21] David: What is f*cking COVID? Is it a different level of COVID?

[16:25] Kirt: No, it's a funner way of--

[16:27] David: Is that a new strain?

[16:28] Kirt: Yeah, it's a new strain.

[16:30] David: I'm sorry to hear that.

[16:31] Kirt: Genitals cough. So, I had to eat the ticket. So, I wasn't going to go on an airplane. So, I took five days off, started testing negative, I bought a new ticket from this scammy website, which is whole other ordeal. Well, first I went up to Seattle to see some friends, then down to Portland, and yeah, then I came back, and went to SPX. Yeah, now I'm back.

[16:59] David: John, it sounds like Kirt's dealing with publishing. It sounds exactly like publishing, to me. We sold out of this thing. I go back to print on this thing, and it's not going to be there in time. I have to direct ship them to the convention, in order to get there on time.

[17:14] Kirt: I'm just lucky everything worked out.

[17:16] David: It usually does. FedEx is fantastic. If you’ve that money, FedEx will help you out. So, that's fantastic news, Kirt. I don't want to just gloss over the fantastic news here, which is, you've sold out of at least five issues worth of--maybe 6, or more. You sold out of the books, buddy.

[17:34] Kirt: Yeah.

[17:35] David: No one ever lost money selling out.

[17:37] Kirt: Yeah, that's true. I definitely have some profit from it. I mean, I can't quit my day job, yet. I could always get fired from my day job.

[17:46] David: Keep drawing at work you are now, and it'll happen. I'm kidding. I don't know anything about when you're drawing. You're doing a lot of it, though, I'll tell you that. You're getting these books out at a really nice, steady clip. I noticed on your last Kickstarter, which was Issue #7, right?

[18:02] Kirt: #7 is the last Kickstarter. I'm working on #8 right now, as we speak.

[18:09] David: And how many of those have you Kickstarted? Have you Kickstarted every single issue?

[18:12] Kirt: Not the first one. The first one was just sold on Etsy. So, I've Kickstarted 6 now.

[18:19] David: Here's what I've noticed. Issue #7, I think, was your highest Kickstarter performance ever. You made more money on the 7th episode than you have on any others. Now, that's a very unusual thing to have happen, and any comic book fan will tell you that your highest numbers are usually on #1, and then you have a big dip with #2, and then if you're lucky, and people are gravitating towards it, you'll see a steady climb from #3 and on, but to have your best sales on a 7th issue of a book, I think it speaks volumes, Kirt, to what you're doing, and the quality of the material that you're providing to people. The reading experience is really great. I know a very large part of that—the podcast is probably creating thousands of dollars’ worth of profit for you, on a regular basis, and I'm not saying that you should pay us back, at some point, but we are going to start sponsorships. So, just keep that in mind as you're […]—I digress. It just speaks to, what you're doing is being well received, and I am definitely a big fan, and I'm really gratified to see that there's more people coming around to what you're doing, because it's well deserved, and I was really happy to see that. So, I just wanted to confirm with you that that was true, that I had that right.

[19:32] Kirt: Yeah, it has. I mean, I did add a T-shirt and extras, and stuff. Definitely helps. The T-shirt stuff is a mixed bag, because one, when you start doing T-shirts, and other merch like that, there's a potential of getting more revenue, but there's also much more storage you need. It's actually just starting another business. You're starting a small T-shirt business, because then you're dealing with sizes, and making sure you got--I did discover a Conair steamer that my brother had, and I was using that.

[20:13] David: To do what?

[20:14] Kirt: Press the shirt. You put it on a hanger, you get this steamer, you press a button--

[20:19] David: Hold on. You're pressing the T-shirt before you ship it to someone?

[20:23] Kirt: No, I had some of the T-shirts at the Con, and they were all wrinkled.

[20:30] David: Needed them nice for display.

[20:32] Kirt: Instead of pressing them, I steamed them.

[20:35] David: Gotcha.

[20:36] Kirt: It's so much faster. It was fantastic. I'm totally buying a Conair steamer.

[20:43] David: Nice.

[20:44] Kirt: Even if you don't like my comics, that's fine, but trust me on this Conair steamer.

[20:52] David: Come for the comic book stuff, stay for the Conair steamer advice.

[20:56] John: I wore my Death of Power T-shirt to work meetings, and sold 2 copies of Death of Power to people on the calls with me.

[21:04] David: Damn, Kirt, that's another $3/4,000 worth of sales that we've given right there.

[21:10] Kirt: Are you serious? That's so great to hear.

[21:12] David: Got to keep doing the shirts now. You sold two books, because of those shirts.

[21:15] Kirt: All right. That's the other benefit of having shirts, stickers, and stuff.

[21:24] David: I think what I want to talk about next--you had this really successful--and we've talked to you about your Kickstarters--This latest issue--we've always, traditionally, the last couple of Kickstarters, when we get our book, we have you on, and we get to talk about it, which is a real treat, for me--for John, too--to be able to talk to the creator about his creation. It's been a little bit longer since we've talked to you--since Issue #7 came out--but I just want to say, once again, you crushed it. Loved this issue. Had such a good time with it. I only have one negative. So, of course I'm going to focus on that, Kirt, and I told this to John. So, this is the first time I'm airing out my grievances on air. First of all, loved it, and I want to talk about the stuff that I loved. I have one gripe.

[22:07] Kirt: And now I want to talk about the stuff I hated.

[22:10] David: Yeah. I have this thing that, as an editor, it drives me nuts. When I see that an image has been copied and pasted, and hasn't been manipulated, in some way, and it's not purposefully done, it drives me bonkers, and you have those really amazing designs on those robo-airplane things that are coming in, at one point, and you copied and pasted two of them.

[22:34] Kirt: I didn't.

[22:35] John: I don't think he did, David.

[22:36] Kirt: I don't think I did.

[22:37] David: You didn't?

[22:38] John: […] right now. I remember you saying that, and I remember what you talked about. Some of them do look like they're copy and pasted, but they're different drawings.

[22:44] David: I am so happy.

[22:46] John: I mean, in the sense that they're the same color.

[22:48] Kirt: That also irritates me, too.

[22:52] David: Wait, no, look. So, I'm looking at page 12 of the PDF--I can't believe I'm doing this. This is so unimportant to the overall--Also, it's so not--and then there's the double-page spread, which is--

[23:06] Kirt: You can't handle the truth.

[23:09] David: Yeah. So, John, that double-page spread, and then I flip it, one page or two pages. The double-page spread is the first iteration of the characters, and then—Wait, maybe that's—never mind. That's great news. I love it.

[23:28] Kirt: I think I see where you thought there were.

[23:30] David: But now I can see that you didn't actually do that. So, it's totally just my old eyes not being able to see things. This is fantastic. So, John, you have thoughts, too, I'm sure, but I want to get mine out of the way. First of all, I feel like the coloring on this one, Kirt, is next level. You really opened up the palette in this issue. I want to call them episodes, for some reason. I feel like you really opened up the palette, in this episode, and were really just joyfully playing with colors, this time, in a way that I--I don't want to say you fully limit yourself, but I feel you have limited yourself, somewhat, in your color choices, and I feel like you really expanded it this time, to great effect, and really fun effect. I really love what you did with the colors, and then without giving anything away, just Wonder Woman with Plastic Man as one of her boobs is just--I mean, there's nothing better. I love it. It's the dumbest, horniest thing, and I'm so jealous that I can't come up with anything quite as dumb and clever as that.

[24:35] Kirt: Thanks.

[24:35] David: Fantastic fight scene, though.

[24:37] Kirt: Yeah, I'm working on the continuation of that, for the next installment.

[24:43] David: Famously, Death of Power, for our listeners, doesn't have a whole ton of dialogue. You really say everything with the art, and with the placement of the characters. There's some dialogue, but you have made a purposeful decision to keep the dialogue to a minimum, but I love that the one thing that you do have voiced, in this particular episode, is “I will smite thee, syphilic wh*re.” You're like, “you know what? I'm not going to say anything, but this has to be said.”

[25:17] Kirt: And I actually think the Professor War Lady, my version of Wonder Woman, that's the first thing she's said in the book, I believe.

[25:26] David: Is it? That's her first words?

[25:29] Kirt: Yeah.

[25:29] David: Fantastic.

[25:31] Kirt: Yeah, even though it has been following her on her fight against the Lud Lester character, the Lex Luthor character.

[25:44] David: How are you feeling? Last time you were on, we talked about the fact that you were going to wrap it up with Issue #9, and then I think you ended up having to go an extra issue. Are you feeling energized still, by the project?

[25:56] Kirt: I'm excited about the ending. I'm going to be primarily just focusing on trying to get those last three done. Hopefully, this year, I'll have the series complete, and then do a collection. Hopefully, the collection will come from a publisher, but it might be difficult, especially right now, to find a publisher with this material, just because of the bootleg nature of it.

[26:26] David: Yeah. What is the desire to have a publisher handle that? Why wouldn't you handle that yourself?

[26:32] Kirt: That's a good question. The main reason would be to potentially get it into more stores. I think that's something that the publishers still have a lock on, of getting it into comic shops, and also bookstores, and getting it seen on online retail stores, too. I think they probably have better access to that stuff. So, that was the main thinking, but I don't know. Maybe I'll just publish it myself. I'm starting to become my own publishing brand anyways.

[27:13] David: As someone who's worked on both sides of it, you know how to do it. So, there's not really that much to gain by letting somebody else do it, because really what's going to happen is, you're going to take it to a publisher, you're going to be the one that ends up doing any and all marketing for it anyway. Yeah, they're going to put some money behind it, and publish it for you, but actually, the likelihood of you making money on this, I think, is actually probably pretty high, because it is a very good, high quality concept that would work in a comic bookstore, I think. John, am I on the right track with that?

[27:42] Kirt: I feel similarly, but you never know, but that is something that I'm a little concerned about. If I do work with a publisher—again, it's modern publishers, and it's not just in comics. It's in every media—They don't put any money into marketing, unless it's big tent project, which--I don't know--it's pretty bad. It's not good. How do people find out about stuff, especially with a more strangled social media landscape, where their algorithmic control has been fine-tuned, to the point where you can't really grow an organic audience anymore?

[28:29] David: Right. I think that Death of Power, as wildly uncommercial as it is, is wildly commercial at the same time--Wildly uncommercial in that it's very violent. It's got nudity, it's got cursing. You do it in a fashion that's not gross, for lack of a better term, and very entertaining--wildly entertaining, and it is superheroes, at the end of the day, and I think superhero stuff, especially really cool, interesting new takes on superhero stuff—which, if you're not absolutely 100% doing that, you're flirting with it, dangerously, being really fresh, and new--I think it still plays in comic bookshops. So, I could totally see this thing working, but I don't know. Who would it be, John? Would it be Image Comics? I mean, maybe Image could be the one that would throw the gas on the fire?

[29:16] Kirt: I imagine I would get the deal where I would have to pay for the printing, and stuff, up-front, or printing gets paid first, and then I get whatever royalties. I wouldn't get the probe, because that's what I've heard, with Image--there's different types of contracts. There's a contract for people who already are established, from Marvel and DC, and then there's the contracts for people like me. You're paying for the brand. That's what I've heard. I don't know if that's 100% true.

[29:56] John: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I do think Image is a place people go to see new stuff. Within the last couple of weeks, I finally got a copy of Scioli's Witchman.

[30:05] Kirt: That was really fun.

[30:07] John: I missed when it got Kickstarted, and you cannot find that thing anywhere. I actually had an eBay alert on it, and it had gone off twice in the year, and I think the only reason I got this one is that it was spelled wrong in the entry. Really lovely book. I missed that Tom did a book at Image, and I picked that up. I haven't read that one, yet. Space Opera Xanadax.

[30:34] David: Yeah, something like that.

[30:35] John: Yeah. It looks super cool. I can't wait to read it, but that feel of Witchman is so cool, and the experience of reading it in the format that Witchman is in, with the paper that Witchman was on, much like Death of Power--Not that it's the only thing that I like about it, but there is that part of imagining it on regular comic book paper. “That's not as much fun, is it? Well, it probably would be good.” I mean, it probably would be--

[30:59] David: I'm torn here, to be honest .I think your best play, Kirt, is taking it to Kickstarter, and doing a really cool, high-end hardcover version of it, and you just find somebody who knows about publishing, like John or I, who hooks you up with a good printer, and you just get it done that way. I don't know. I mean, you can also do both. There's nothing stopping you from taking it to Kickstarter first, and then eventually repackaging it, in a way that's more acceptable for comic bookstores, and doing that version, too, but you can always double dip. There's no reason not to.

[31:33] Kirt: Right. The standard Image trade that comes out, it's good for the books in their product line, but it's a one-size-fits-all, especially for lesser-known people. So, I don't know if I'm totally married to--I guess, you have a choice.

[31:56] John: Yeah, I don't think you have to do that. I imagine that was a choice that Tom made. […] criticism of Image than just “here's two different formats of this comic.” Just to keep on Scioli, Image did that Kirby thing, where he remixed the Kirby story, or redrew Kirby's […]. That was a weird, unusual format, too. I mean, they do the sideways Brian Vaughan comics, and stuff.

[32:21] Kirt: That's true.

[32:22] David: Yeah, and I guess at the end of the day, really, you sell it wherever you can, and format is just another way to sell it. Some people are going to buy every single format that you offer. That's how publishing works. Once you've got something that's somewhat successful, the idea is that you keep selling it, over and over, and over again, in as many different ways, through as many different publishers as you can get going. So, I guess, why limit yourself? I think maybe I'm cautioning or feeling weird about it, for no good reason.

[32:53] Kirt: I do know of a writer and artist that did a trade collection on Kickstarter, then ended up printing a larger run with Image.

[33:05] David: If it was me--well, it is me. I do run Kickstarters, too. Do you know that I've got a superhero comic book on Kickstarter right now, Kirt?

[33:13] Kirt: I think I just got a message yesterday, or the day before yesterday, but I haven't had a chance to check it out.

[33:20] David: Dude, you inspired me. I was like, “this is so great and so cool, and interesting,” and I was like, “I'm going to do the exact opposite of what Kirk did.” No, I'm really proud of it. It's called Sugar Bomb, and it's my attempt at superhero stuff.

[33:38] Kirt: Awesome.

[33:39] David: As it turns out, my attempt at superhero stuff involves horny dolphins and scantily clad superhero women. It's good. You’re going to like it. I think it's right up your alley.

[33:49] Kirt: Well, you had me at dolphin. I'm really a fan of tortoises.

[33:58] John: And we'll take a break right there. Is that a happy accident? No, we're doing this on porpoise. Come back next week for more of Kirt. Maybe somebody else will stop by. Spoiler alert: they don't. Be back next week for another installment of The Corner Box, with David and John, and special guest, Kirt Burdick. Thanks for joining us this time. See you next week. Bye.

This has been The Corner Box with David and John. Please take a moment and give us a five-star rating. It really helps. Join us again next week for another dive into the wonderful world of comics.