[00:01] Announcer: Welcome to the Corner Box with of experience in all aspects of comic book production. David, John, and their guests will give you an in-depth and insightful look at the past, present, and future of the most exciting medium on the planet, comics, and everything related to it.

[00:24] David: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Corner Box. My name is David Hetchcock. And with me, as always, is my very good friend, very best pal-- John Barber. --that Transformer, a Hall of Famer, that Marvel editor, that IDW Publishing Editor in Chief, John Barber. How you doing, John? - I'm hanging in there, I'm doing all right. How about you? - I just took an energy strip. - Oh, God, no. - These are my new things, man. So I'm feeling great. I'm also feeling great because we have a guest, John. We have a guest on the show today. Welcome to the Clubhouse, Robert Semo. I probably should have asked how to say your last name. Is that right?

[00:58] Robert Samo: - Semo is what everybody calls me in English, so it's perfect.

[01:00] David: - Welcome to the podcast, Mr. Robert Semo, host of the Fanboy Nation podcast, as well as on the reels. Thanks for joining us, Robert.

[01:08] Robert Samo: - Hey, thank you for having me. I know we talked recently about your "Jerby" comic, which has been doing great, especially with the Kickstarter and how you keep that moving. And then you guys wanted to talk to me for some reason, and I'm not usually on this side of the mic.

[01:20] David: - There's no quid pro quo here at all. I just, I really enjoyed our conversation the other day. And I was like, "Nah, I'd love to have a chat with this guy on our show." I'm like, "Put him in the hot seat for a little bit. See how he likes it." Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this "Famoy Nation" thing.

[01:34] Robert Samo: So the funny thing with all this is that initially we were going to launch in 2009. My dad passed away. So we did a little soft launch here and there, and then finally took off in about 2012. And I had initially started covering hard politics and hard news. And you say something a little too close to home and you disappear like Gary Webb. And if you give, you know, Spider-Man three 27, a bad review, Marvel's not going to send you any more books. So I'd rather take that angle and go to the bookstore versus disappearing. And so we started off with comics and all the indie books, moved into animation and film and television. Now live theater and here we are back again, going into the indie comic scene.

[02:16] David: - Very nice. I feel like we couldn't have had you on at a better time though there's, our listeners are listening to this about two weeks after "Sandy O'Comicon". So this will just be like traveling to time capsule, but there's so much happening right now. There's so much news going on. So it's great to have you on and get your take on some of this stuff. John and I, we're kind of old fuddy-duddy working in the industry forever. So we're calloused and crusty about all these announcements. So it's nice to have somebody who on the show who will bring a little light and levity and an actual enjoyment to these things.

[02:46] Robert Samo: - Just as calloused, but a little less crusty, you got it. (laughing)

[02:51] David: - Yeah, no pressure, but be up. Got so much to talk about. Like right before the show for our listeners, you know, we do hours and hours of prep, you know, like just, I mean, decades potentially of prep, you know, before we, before we started the show. So, but what we didn't decide is what we're going to start today. So maybe we should talk about comic books. So anyway, you say new comic cons starting next week, there's all kinds of announcements, all kinds of stuff happening. And man, you know, the elephant in the room besides me and my fat ass is, uh, is the stuff going on with our watch? John's already shaking his John for a var listener. John is shaking his head about 14 times since we started. Sorry. John, did you hear the news?

[03:30] John: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I did. I did hear a rumbling. No, yeah. So Marvel, we're talking about Marvel announcing they're going to move to Burbank and Steve Wacker coming in to be editor in chief and CB Zabolsky moving back to Japan. Quite an event. What's it mean, Robert?

[03:49] Robert Samo: Well, it reminds me of when DC had moved to LA and they, you know, they left New York And someone had leaked the email to the press and people were on my case for not reporting on it. And then I was like, I haven't heard from DC. So I got ahold of DC. And they're like, you're the only one other than CNN that actually cared to fact check if it was real. And I was like, so me and DC just checked on DC since they're both Warner Brothers companies. And now hearing this, it's interesting because they're going to end up in Burbank and they're going to end up, are they going to share the building with ABC or Disney animation? Are they going to have their own space? Like how's that going to look?

[04:25] David: According to the Hollywood Reporter, they're just sharing offices with Disney. It doesn't give like an exact location other than they're in Burbank with the rest of the Disney side of the business.

[04:35] Robert Samo: Well, it's going to be interesting to see how the micromanaging going it goes, because, you know, Mickey definitely likes to have his finger in everything.

[04:43] David: There's so much on the pack here. I mean, first of all, having Marvel and DC Comics now no longer in New York. It's yet another icon of the industry. I don't know if that's the right term, but it's once again, a pillar of the industry has sort of crumbled and been stripped away. And I'm a California kid, so I don't say that lightly, but it does feel strange to think that the days of Marvel being in New York with Spider-Man swinging through the buildings of New York City, those two things are no longer intrinsically tied together the way they were just right now, the way they are right now.

[05:21] Robert Samo: What's he going to do, hop from car to car in 405 traffic?

[05:27] John: You used to be able to walk out of the Marvel offices and you'd walk down to Bryant Park and it's like, "Oh yeah, that's where Peter Parker and Luke Cade braced Matt Murdock about him going too wild." You'd be like, "Oh, there's the bridge where Gwen Stacy died." And then you'd look at a different bridge and say, "That's also the bridge where Gwen Stacy died." Even more than DC. You know what I mean? DC didn't move out of Gotham City or whatever. moving out of where all the Marvel stuff is and it was such a such a New York thing. I don't know. Like not that Marvel characters don't exist other places and bloody, bloody blah, but they're all from Manhattan. They all go to work in Manhattan anyway, even if they live in Queens.

[06:05] David: It's much more impactful, I think, just for what you said, John, because the DC universe does not totally exist in our world, in length, better term. But Marvel is, you know, the superhero next door in a really true and meaningful way. And that's where the most popular characters all inhabit. They all live in New York. So it's interesting to have that disconnect now.

[06:27] John: Not to gloss over the bigger thing, which is like the human toll of this. I mean, that's a lot of people that have-- some of whom have spent many, many decades at Marvel, some of whom-- you know, some of whom haven't, but are also still dedicated. They're going to either have to tear up their lives and move across the country or not, which is surely part of the plan, that you can get rid of a lot of staff that way, but just that I'm not coming over. It's a lot to take in for any place. It's funny with the DC move, like you said, Robert, everybody knew about that. You really had to have buried your head in the sand if you didn't think that was going to happen to you at Marvel or DC. My understanding at Marvel was as much as that writing was maybe on a wall in big ways, There were still people that thought they weren't going to move and there was a plausible move because Disney had just opened a big office building in the on the east side of Manhattan that made a lot of sense to a lot of sense in the sense that I would want to be editing comics there, but made a lot of sense to move Marvel there.

[07:28] Robert Samo: But it's going to be interesting to see how this is going to turn into because there's also that rumor that they're no longer going to print or, you know, have the in-house printing. to move over to Webtoon, see what works there, and then go to print from that aspect. So it's going to be very interesting to see how this shift's going to do. Is it going to be in-house anymore, or are they going to outsource everything?

[07:48] John: I would be extremely surprised about the Webtoon thing. I can't figure out how that would make any financial sense for anybody. But who knows? You're also dealing with people a lot of times don't have any interest in this material at all, other than what you can do to exploit in other mediums or whatever.

[08:05] David: I think that's the key, John, right there, is that you're going to have, I mean, let's call them out. If Feige and Brad Winderbaum and David Abdo, if those guys believe that the Marvel comic books are truly sort of the storytelling investment for the larger Marvel universe and the larger Marvel properties, you know, film and animation and things like that, if those three guys have a belief that the comic books are the source material for these other areas of media, Then I can't see a moment where Marvel is licensing out their stuff. As much as I think that's possible, I think those three guys are smart. They will allow the R&D to continue to happen at the Marvel comic level, and they will continue to print and publish comic books and make a decent little chunk of change with the knowledge that they are building blocks, they're building a foundation for whatever the next stories are going to be. There's a lot of things that have to happen under that though. of them being like, they gotta start paying creative again. And I think they probably have to start giving participation to stuff again. If those two things don't happen, then Marvel is going to continue to go in the direction it's going, and then they will have to offload all this stuff onto the licensing arm of the company, and just license all this stuff out to companies that can actually make money. You know, DC will pick up Spider-Man and start doing Spider-Man. That's not a joke. That's going to happen. Marvel C-suite thinks that licensing Marvel comic books is a good idea, then those same people will not recognize that licensing them to DC is a bad idea. And if DC doesn't go 100,000% after those properties, I would be shocked. Shocked. Mary Javens is no dummy. She would get that. She would immediately go after that stuff.

[09:53] Robert Samo: And then maybe we can call the real Captain Marvel Captain Marvel again.

[09:58] David: There's the silver lining we were looking for. See, look at that, Robert. You're already the bright, shiny star in this sea of dark clouds that we're building here.

[10:08] Robert Samo: I still can't call him Shazam. That's the wizard. I can't get past it. I know it's been 15 years. I still can't get past it.

[10:17] John: So I think Steve Wacker is like a smart choice to bring in for that. I mean, I assume he has some background from Steve's TV stuff. I assume you have some background with the new publishing team and everything. He's flat out one of the, if not the best editors I've ever known. I mean, no offense to anybody else, but he edited 52 and like that by itself is the, the most extraordinary editorial feat I think I've seen in my lifetime.

[10:44] David: Well, what's so hard? Just he hired Keith Giffen. Why is that such a big editorial? I'm not, I would have done the same thing. It's not a heavy lift. I'm just kidding. Would have hired Keith Keith given the plot and do all the layouts for everything that they would just what I think they did, right?

[10:58] John: Well, no, they had Grant Morrison Mark Wade Greg Rucka

[11:02] David: I thought Keith given came in though to like basically do all the roughs for it. You did all the roughs

[11:06] Robert Samo: Yeah, that's what I'm talking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, didn't crank out like a hundred pages in a week or something like that Or 200 pages or some ridiculous amount didn't sleep for that first month

[11:16] David: I'm not taking anything away from Steve Wacker on this that was an impressive editorial feat that he pulled off I think, though, that he's got that job more based on the Emmy nomination for animation than anything else.

[11:27] John: I think he's a good person that bridges that gap there. He's known quantity among the Marvel editorial team, I think, pretty well-liked. And he has, I mean, his track record on the comic side at Marvel was also great. He edited "Brand New Day" and all the stuff that came out of that. Whatever people say about it online was internally a huge success and definitely looked at well-edited Hawkeye. Not to take anything at all away from Suna, but he also worked on Captain Marvel, or on Ms. Marvel, I mean, on Kamala Khan.

[11:56] David: He's credited as co-creator on that.

[11:57] John: Oh, there you go. Yeah, I think he's a good choice. I think he knows comics, he knows media, he knows how to work in both of these worlds, and I think that's probably what you're gonna need from somebody there. You know, in all my ramblings about, like, comic book people or whatever, he's definitely somebody that's got that pedigree. He knows comics real well.

[12:15] Robert Samo: And maybe we'll get a House of M series out of it for animation. Oh, I know you already worked on the book. We're talking about the crossover. He has an Emmy you said. Oh, so an Emmy.

[12:26] David: There you go. Here's the thing about C.B. Cebulski, who has essentially stepped down or been asked to step down as editor-in-chief of Marvel Comics. He had a decent run. What was it, like seven or nine years, I think?

[12:40] John: Yeah, that really flew by. I mean, it's funny because a big chunk of that's like pandemic. Like, that almost doesn't register as time. You know what I mean? like having lived through it. I know in reality it was eight times the amount of time. You know what I mean? I know in reality he's been editor in chief of Marvel for 300 years because of the pandemic. From the outside it makes it like, oh, I forgot about those years.

[13:01] Robert Samo: Isn't he more of a manga guy anyway? So putting him in charge of the manga section is a little more up his alley.

[13:08] John: He's everything, but his background is definitely manga. Like he came from out of Central Park media, which was a late nineties, early two thousands that manga, mostly manga, not exclusively.

[13:18] David: Yeah. I think his strengths are as a finder of talent. If you look at the guys that he's brought in, you know, at his track record, a lot of them come from the Asian markets. So that's not surprising. I'm happy that Marvel sort of followed the tradition hitting it canned, right? He got moved to a different spot. Tom DeFalco, when he, when he finished his time as editor in chief, he kept writing comic books at Marvel. And you know Roy Thomas didn't just you know up and leave or maybe did he did go to DC right after that?

[13:47] John: The only firing that ever really happened was with shooter. I don't that's the only one I mean, I think Bob Harris was well, I guess he but they said, you know what? He they split it in a different home and we're really going off on a tangent here

[13:58] David: There is a time on a tradition of editor-in-chiefs like basically stepping down and letting somebody else take the pole position for a while and that feels right because as an editor-in-chief You've got a lot of things that you want to do, a lot of things that you want to say, a lot of things you want to try to accomplish. But at a certain point, you've lifted the lift, moved the load, you've kind of accomplished things you want to do. And I think it's a good thing to have somebody else step into that position and you step back. Feels like what's happened here and that feels good to me on how CB has been treated. He was successful in the position. They're not successful right now, I think by any measure, but that shouldn't all be laid at his feet. So I like the way they took care of him. It makes me want to give Marvel another chance in a way that maybe I wouldn't have if they had done it differently.

[14:42] Robert Samo: It's interesting to see how this is all going about because the industry has always had its ebb and flow and it's had its high points, it's had its low points. Civil War was huge and then we led into the MCU and now we're kind of in a dip right now. I think the only one of the big two that's making any real money is the Absolute Universe. So it's interesting to see what's really going on and where the audience mindset shifting.

[15:05] John: Yeah, yeah. It usually takes a little bit for the editor in chief to have their fingers in fully. I mean, presuming they're not, there isn't some sort of outside the box thing that's going to happen or just like some mandate to do like crazy change of, you know, fire all the creative teams and get Scott Snyder to write them or something. It will be interesting to see how that shifts to kind of view the market now, you know, like a CV sort of that run, his run of comics kind of went from the the Marvel now era, which I thought was a tremendous era of Marvel. I thought that was really good stuff. The tail end of Axl's run as editor-in-chief. Then they kind of went into more of a traditionalist kind of look for a while and then kind of settled into a very film-friendly version of things, stuff that tends to not be a million miles away from the movies and tends to deliver the comics. If you've seen the movies, you'll see the real comics that are similar to that, with maybe a few huge exceptions like the Krakow era, X-Men stuff or whatever. It is interesting to wonder what the audience wants on it. I was talking to somebody yesterday who kind of maybe drifted off from comics around Civil Warrior or something like that. Still picks stuff up every once in a while, but was saying that it's, you know, you didn't understand why Marvel stuff just didn't purely exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, like why they weren't doing that stuff. And I don't know if that's necessarily what you want when you're becoming a Marvel Comics reader. You kind of want something that's either the source of things or that leads you to something deeper than what you're getting in the movies. If you're just getting a shallower version of what's in the movies, which is almost by necessity what most tie-in stuff does, I don't know if that really attracts like the fan to it. It's an even more casual audience than goes to see the movies if it's something that's like the movies but it can't affect anything,

[16:50] Robert Samo: you know? I was listening to last week's podcast with you guys where you said if you've read the book you don't like to go watch the movie because you know how it's going to happen and that's how they change up novels and translate them to the film media. You know, if I've read the book, I don't want to watch the movie and vice versa. To try to keep it in line with the two and have it coherent, I think that's a daunting task of its own. Yeah. A nice chunk of my career was trying

[17:11] David: to figure out how to create synergy across different medias and how to create sort of temple franchises where story could bubble up from the bottom or start at the top and trickle down. And I'm starting to become convinced that that's a load of bullshit. And really the thing that needs to happen is you make a comic book to make a comic book, period. That's it. That's the end of the story. So you tell Spider-Man comic book stories and you tell them really good. And whatever happens in the comic book happens in the comic book. And who cares what's happening in the movies or the animation or whatever else it is, because it should not and really ultimately cannot affect what's happening in the comic book exactly for what John said, because no one gives a shit about a comic book. If all it's doing is rehashing what the movie did for the general audience, a movie is a more exciting way to engage with Spider-Man than a comic book. I am an exception to that. I would much rather engage with the comic book than the movie when I want to, you know, get into Spider-Man. But I recognize that I am one of very few people that are into that idea. But if you make Spider-Man irrelevant in the comic books, then I too, as someone who loves comic books, will also not be interested in the comic book. And I think that's where we're at right now. I think all of this is good news. I think these moves are smart moves. The move to Burbank concerns me, but I'm willing to, like, you know, keep an open mind here. But the stuff that concerns me is this. This is what Brad Winterbaum says. "This move," talking about the move from New York to Burbank, "will position the team beside our broader creative organization and create opportunities for collaboration across both Marvel and Disney." I threw up in my mouth when I read that. It is such a level of corporate speak and so damning to comic creativity. No, the last thing we need is for people to be holding hands across the aisle. What we need right now is creative Mavericks going off on their own and crushing it. There's a reason why Daniel Warren Johnson took a transformer comic to the number one best-selling comic in all of comics. And it's because everyone got out of his way and let Daniel Warren Johnson, the auteur, cook. That's not what Winterbaum is saying. What and see what Pablum gets spit out at the other end. Bringing our comics, film, television, and other creative teams together will help us learn from one another, collaborate, and build on the strengths that make Marvel the true house of ideas. Puke. Yuck. No, thank you.

[19:32] Robert Samo: So what Dave's saying is he's not excited for the Miss Marvel Daisy Duck crossover.

[19:38] David: Don't get me started.

[19:39] John: A little late for that, David.

[19:41] David: I think it's not just the energy strips that I took. It's the energy strips. and I also had a cup of coffee and a glass of iced tea. I've got the juice, man. I'm ready to go. Let's go, let's fight.

[19:50] John: - Wow, all right.

[19:54] Robert Samo: - John, we've got the man from fanboy nation, Dee Guy. - Easy for me when the books are sent to me, so I don't necessarily find the metrics of what's being sold and how everything's doing. When you guys have your crowdfunding and your Kickstarters and everything else to able to do it, you can judge from that point. But when diamond gone, how do we know that the numbers are true? How do we know where the sales numbers are all coming from? Because it's not just a weekly one-stop shop and go, okay, Diamond said they sold 1800 units of this one indie book versus 3 million of this book over here. How do we measure it now? Right.

[20:29] David: Well, look, even when Diamond Diamond was the only game town, all those, all those numbers were lies. I know for a fact, there were certain books that I was on that were saying, you know, we were selling one number and we were selling literally twice as much. Literally. And that happened not once or twice. That happened all the time. You have to take all that information in and sort of like get a sign it sort of levels of importance and then spit out whatever you're going to spit out. And I think the comparisons are probably okay. Like, Hey, Batman, we don't know what Batman really is selling, but it's absolute Batman is probably selling better than just about any other book right now, just because everyone's talking about it. It's the thing that everybody's hyped about. There's 20 different covers on every single issue. Like, okay, that's, that's definitely the best seller. So if we say that absolute Batman selling a hundred thousand units right Then it's reasonable to assume that, you know, whatever the next five or 10 are, are, you know, varying levels of under that and in a range and assigning numbers is what we do. Right. So it's fun. So let's just go ahead and do that too. But there's two major point of sales systems within the comic book industry. Now, you know, ICV two is pulling point of sales information from those, from those two POS systems. While it's not like super accurate, I think we are getting at least a broad overview, like a 3000 foot view of what's happening, whatever those numbers are, the actual sales figures that they're giving are probably not super accurate, but, but it's in the ballpark I'm guessing. So that's how we do it. Right. That's how it's happening now is the point of sale systems. And then we also have the book scan numbers, which are pretty, those are pretty accurate. The book scan sales. And so you can look at the book scan sales and say like, Oh, you know, in the month of April, the top 10 best-selling graphic novels were all absolute Batman. You know, it was like the deluxe edition volume one volume two and everything else was not even a close second So just by that alone you can start inferring like okay Well, the monthly sales figures are probably they're they're reflecting something very similar and that's probably a true thing

[22:26] Robert Samo: Yeah, cuz you know like with stuff like that since I get advanced copies from like Dark Horse image boom mad cave, etc I don't necessarily see the numbers or have to wait for the weekly reaction at the comic shop

[22:37] David: You get the comp compies. Is there a pressure on you once you receive that stuff to read it within a certain amount of time? Or how do you parse that?

[22:45] Robert Samo: With image, they give it to you about a week or two out. The same with boom and a couple of the others. I think Dark Horse gives it to you about two to three weeks out. And you'll start reading stuff and you decide, is this good? Is this a book that I follow? Would I want to commit to more than a six issue arc? What if I start at issue one and two are great and then we get to three and four and they're garbage? Like, you know, when do I fall off? So like sometimes I'll start with just one, the new graphic novel comes in and I'll review that arc and then move on to a different book or I'll just do the number one and then sometimes you never get a number two and then, you know, you're like, wait, where's the second issue? And some stuff's great, but nobody's reading it.

[23:24] David: With fanboy nation, you've got a pretty good platform there. How do you choose the stuff that you're going to talk about each week? Is there, is there pressure one way or another? Or is it just an internal, uh, decision?

[23:32] Robert Samo: It's very much what I'm interested in. I grew up watching pro wrestling. I love mixed martial arts, comics has always been fun, animation has been something that's been in my life since early childhood. So if it seems interesting, I'll talk about it. And it's very strange how people react to certain things because people think, and I'm not going to get political in a sense of like, you know, what my politics are. People will think I'm either very blue or very red, and I'm just very purple. And like this on this side interests me. Okay, I'll check that one out. That one on that side interests me. I'll check that out. This isn't really my thing, but you know what? It piqued my curiosity, let's talk about it and see what's in there. It's all based on my curiosity. If it seems interesting and intriguing, I'll give it a watch or I'll give it a read. If it's something that I know I can't say one nice thing about, I will tell the publicist and go, look, I can't say a single nice thing about this, I'm not gonna review it. It's not fair to the people that put all their time and effort into it. Unless of course it's like Transformers 347 coming out in the feeders and the movie cost $400 million to make after marketing. And then you know, you still end up with a crappy Michael Bay movie.

[24:48] David: We're talking a little bit before the show about the movies this year. What's your take on what's happening this summer?

[24:54] Robert Samo: It's kind of sad to be honest with you. I mean, here's the thing. We want the genre films to succeed. We want Supergirl to be a hit. We want Masters of the Universe to be a hit. We want all of it to work. Toy Story has always been a license to print money. And that hit what, 1.2 billion internationally? Something like that, 1.6? Whatever it is, but they hit their mark. Minions hit just under 400 million, but on a 61 million budget. So they made their money back and plus some. But we've been conditioned through the pandemic that why am I going to go to the theater? Amazon's big mistake with Masters of the University. Yeah, I was a He-Man kid. If you look at the original Flash Gordon movie, yes it's campy, but it's done it in earnest. Looking at Masters of the Universe, as much as I like the writer and director behind it, the problem is that it kept winking at the audience going, "Ha ha, this is kinda cheesy, ha ha, this is kinda funny," and didn't ever take itself seriously. And with Amazon in itself, how many people are paying for Prime? You're paying $200 a year for Prime. So it should be included in that. Why am I going to take a family of four, before snacks, and pay Amazon an extra hundred dollars to go watch the Masters of the Universe movie. When I'm already paying them 200 bucks a year to see everything else they have to offer just so I could have my toilet paper shipped to my house instead of going to the grocery store and getting it. - Right, that's my big issue with that.

[26:16] David: - Yeah, for He-Man specifically, sorry John, I promised my lunch talk at some point. I can't really speak to some of this other stuff, but for He-Man specifically, I didn't understand why they were making that movie. Hear me out. It's a very early mid 80s property in toy line that was very popular in the early 80s, but the people that were into that toy, they're in their 50s now, man. They're old dudes. That's not the demographic that's going to movies, right? That's not even close to the demographic. So it hits this very thin slice of the American population that's going to be even interested in Masters of the Universe. The only thing I can think of is that the studio heads were looking at it and saying like, well, this is the male version of Barbie, but that's not even remotely close. Barbie is a brand that's been around for 50, 60 years, and it's still fairly strong even today. And that is wildly different from He-Man that was popular for about five years, 40 years ago. I think the idea that Masters of the Universe was ever going to do any kind of numbers was wrong thinking. Like, they should have never made that movie. And I liked, I went to see the movie, I had zero interest in seeing the movie at first. Then I heard really good things about it. The word of mouth was really good on it. So I went a few weeks into it and saw it and really enjoyed it. I thought it was super fun for what it was, right? And my son, who's only 16, has no idea what any of this stuff is. He care less about He-Man. He enjoyed it too. And he followed the plot. He understood the characters. And so I think it was a good movie, but the fact that it was He-Man pushed people away from that film more than I think it brought people in. If that had just been some fantasy movie that they called something else, it might've done better.

[28:01] Robert Samo: - I'm in my late 40s, so this is essentially what I told everybody. The movie that we wanted, we got in the last five to 10 minutes. That's the entire film we wanted from the get-go. We didn't need an hour and 30 minute build-up to get to the last five minutes of what we wanted. We wanted the soundtrack. We wanted to hear that original score. We wanted to see Orko. We wanted to see Battlecat. We wanted to see all that stuff. I think the big mistake also was in the trailer doing that he/him joke with so many people have been disenfranchised by this notion, whether you want to call it woke, whether you want to call it whatever, pronouns and bios, all that stuff. You have to remember the country is 5149 and it's that 2% that ticks back and forth that really decides everything. And so when people in that 2% are fed up enough, they just don't care. And it's interesting to see because was it enjoyable? Yes. that I could finally see Beastman on screen, Manek and all this other stuff. Yeah, but it wasn't the movie that we wanted in a sense. And if it hadn't gone straight to Prime Video, I think it would have done far better. And when the numbers come out from Prime Video, it's because everybody already pays $200 a year for Prime that they're going to watch it at home. What would those numbers mean though?

[29:15] John: Like nobody, is anybody going to start subscribing to Prime in order to see He-Man?

[29:19] Robert Samo: No, but they've already seen it because they still want to do the Shira movie and then the combination of the brother and sister coming together. But it's just going to be a streaming film. It shouldn't be in theaters. Like Voltron. They pulled Voltron from the theater slate and stuck it straight on Prime when that's going to be released. Am I interested in seeing Voltron? Yeah. Am I interested in seeing Henry Cabell in

[29:41] John: Voltron? Not really. I mean, this is a thing like film studios do, which is misunderstand what it is that makes things successful or whatever. This is like coming off the Batman movie when everybody's like, "Oh, they must have like 30s characters. The characters in the original." - They didn't take it. - Yeah, everybody wants to take Tracy in the shadow, right? And I did, but no, they like Batman. The one I kind of wanted to bring up. I think there's a real clear answer to this thing, and I don't know that you are going to agree, I guess, but like that Moana movie did real bad. Like it did not come out and make money. It's somehow, I think it's underperforming Snow White, or it's at least in the ballpark of Snow White. I'm not sure if it's underperforming or hitting there and that's like my tent pole of like This is a movie nobody on earth wanted. None of the controversies mattered I don't even think you got to the point that you saw the dwarves just like nobody wants that live-action snow white I think there's four reasons Moana didn't succeed the rock is horrifying Maui is a beloved character for kids Right and to take him put the rock who's not a bad-looking guy He's a good-looking guy putting him in a giant rubber suit and then putting his squishy little head on the top of that thing Like this isn't like him playing a younger character. I understand that He's like 10,000 years younger than Maui's supposed to be But he still ahead does not look like the same age as the body and in case you were just like managing to not pull Your eyes onto that fucking head They put a wig on it. That's like a big glowing arrow. That's like look at this Look at this my seven-year-old and I were walking in Target and he sees the Moana toys and he goes that's Terrifying now we think and then he looks at the Moana toy, you know, it's based on the one playing Moana

[31:26] Robert Samo: He's like that's fine. That's terrifying. John Sun is seven years old. He's talking like a 35 year old The issue with Moana primarily is this it came out ten years ago The sequel came out what two three years ago? It was just too soon to do a live-action one None of the live-action ones have really been revolutionary or exciting beauty and the Beast wasn't good Aladdin was terrible I didn't even bother with it with Snow White Cinderella was okay. I don't know why they even called the Jungle Book live-action It's just a better cartoon Technology-wise story wise it's not and everything is almost shot for shot I didn't like the how to train your dragons live-action one because again, it's primarily shot for shot I already have for the animated features that are great. Why do I need a live action adaptation of something that's already there? Now, if it was 40 years later and you could do a good updated version of it, that's one thing. But when it's fresh in your memory and your kid just watched the cartoon three days ago on Disney Plus, and now I'm going to spend again, a hundred bucks for the four of us to go see the live action shot for shot version, that's three fourth CG. What I really see that's new, it's not new. There's nothing exciting about it.

[32:37] John: - Well, that's true. But I mean, I think anytime the next 10,000 years you could make a movie and make Maui look like they made Maui look like in that movie and nobody's gonna see it. I know this is like, sounds like funny, but I think that's a problem of recency. But I also think like you look at like Stitch, like the Stitch movie came out and it had Stitch in it. This isn't disproving anything you said Robert, I'm not disagreeing with this. This is a generation of kids that never got to go see Stitch in the theaters. They love Stitch and here's a chance to go see Stitch the theaters and Stitch looks like Stitch and you get to see Stitch doing Stitch things. Maybe they changed the story a little bit, whatever. I didn't actually see the movie. My son saw it. I thought it was fine anywhere. He hasn't watched it again.

[33:15] David: He went to the movie theater by himself, John?

[33:17] John: I don't know. He went out. He got a pack of smokes, hung out. Yeah, he smelled like cigarettes and stolen cars, which is like a really funny specific smell.

[33:28] David: That you're intimate with fairly?

[33:31] John: It's all parenting, David. I guess you should probably look into it a little bit.

[33:34] David: Yeah, I made that shit. Any things of mine, John, that I think is proving your point is the Sonic the Hedgehog, right? Like when the first shots of Sonic the Hedgehog came out, and like, there was no way in heck I was gonna see that movie.

[33:47] Robert Samo: We were all bracing for disaster. So I have a theory on that. I had a theory on the Sonic one that they were trying to pull the whole rage bait thing to see what the audience was going to react to and engage if they were interested, and then go, "All right, ha ha, here's the real one."

[34:02] David: Robert, we were on the inside on that one.

[34:04] Robert Samo: That was really what it was supposed to look like.

[34:06] David: There was a very, very strong disconnect between Sega and Sony. It got fixed, it got repaired clearly because that movie, I enjoyed the heck out of it. If you saw what it was before, there was a complete disconnect there. There was a lot of people who thought they knew what they were doing and they did not know.

[34:23] Robert Samo: Well, they learned quick, didn't they?

[34:26] David: They did, no, to everybody's credit, they got it right. They figured it out and got it right. And Sonic was a fantastic movie. It went on to do a sequel. Jim Carrey's brilliant in those movies. I love him. And the sonic design is what people want to see. So I think, John, you're right. Like you've got to get the designs right, because if you don't, like I don't want to spend an hour and a half looking at something ugly, like period. I don't. No, thank you.

[34:49] John: David, you come on here and talk to me like every week. Is that a shot? You think I shot at me?

[34:53] David: No, you're a handsome devil, as I say almost every podcast. Or you can talk it about.

[34:56] Robert Samo: Well, to touch on the Moana thing real quick, do you think they should have shot it at the same time they did Smashing Machine before the rock shrunk down? that they didn't need to put them in a giant suit. - They should have filmed it like an

[35:05] John: I Love Lucy episode or something, or a Threes company episode, where The Rock has to play both characters simultaneously. So every line he says has to be like applicable to both. That would have been great. You go and you watch like the same performance in two different movies. - The Moana Smashing Machine crossover. - Jesus.

[35:24] David: - I'm gonna solve all those phrase right now. John's theories on the Moana thing is correct, but overall, let's look at the big umbrella. Let's take a step back. Look at the summer as a whole. Here's why things happening. Truly. There is just a shift in the audience demographics. I agree. Seeing is a younger generation of what viewers and moviegoers are now taking the poll position in terms of who's spending money in these, on these things. And Gen X is finally like, I've seen enough. We're all bowing out. I think that's all it is. I think it's just, you know, the different tastes change the millennials and the z millennials, they're brought up on their phones, right? They have different tastes. They have different heroes. They have different things that they're watching and following and consuming in terms of their media and their entertainment. And so they're just looking for different things. So when you throw out Master of the Universe or Moana, it's not a connect, it's not a connect anymore. And that's why these horror movies I think did connect. I think horror might actually be having a moment as well. But I think the underlying thing is that these things were created by people who had younger generation follow faithfully and admire and are entertained by already. So a lot of it is just that, right? And then also Supergirl didn't work last time. So what is this, you know, Eric and Tanya Hubri to think that you can make it work. Supergirl doesn't work as this, nobody wants to watch Supergirl as the lead. It's just not a thing.

[36:46] John: - So, you know, I loved the hell out of Superman and I was super looking forward to this. Cause like, it's like you do a combination of James Gunn and the director's name is escaping me. But I really liked the Nancy Kerrigan movie that he did. And I loved Cruella. I watched Cruella and then I hit play and watched it again. I loved that.

[37:07] David: The director is Craig Gillespie.

[37:10] John: Craig, yeah, yeah. Best Batman Returns homage film ever made. Cruella has got a lot of references to Batman Returns in there. I haven't seen Supergirl yet, so I can't speak to it. It seems like people just attacked that movie. That variety review was a variety or Hollywood, it was a variety, right? It was one or the other, yeah. That was vicious. Like just like going, I mean, it was like, it seemed like it was going after the Tom King without mentioning him, you know?

[37:33] Robert Samo: Like, honestly with Supergirl, I was just like, I don't want to put on pants to go see this one. I'll just wait till it's on HBO Max.

[37:40] John: Yeah. Well, for me, like hearing James Gunn's like rollout, it's like, ooh, that's pretty gutsy. And then now it's like, wait a minute. Maybe that's just a bad idea. Like maybe leading with Creature, Commandos, Clayface and Supergirl and Jimmy Olsen is going to be a problem.

[37:55] Robert Samo: And the, the, what, how many years is going to be between Batman movies now? Like they pushed it back out to 2028.

[38:00] John: Yeah.

[38:01] Robert Samo: It's bonkers. Like I don't know if you follow that. Batman's a popular character. Just a bit. I mean, I really liked that Nightwing kid, but like his origin story is so boring.

[38:14] David: Oh man. Oh yeah. I haven't seen Supergirl either. And I was super jazzed to watch it and I, and I really enjoyed Superman. And I, and I'm a big fan of James Gunn's work. I think part of the reason why Supergirl maybe didn't work is because James Gunn didn't direct it, but he was trying to direct it from outside the director's seat. I don't know. I don't know. I'm curious as to why that went down, but I think much like Masters of the Universe, there is no existing audience for that. If you want super-powered, Superman, DC Universe stuff, I want Superman, not Supergirl. I want Batman, not Robin. It's kind of the same thing. Take the gender out of it. It's just that why would I want to see the second version when I just got the first version last summer. I don't know, it's just a weird disconnect between where the audience is at and what these movies think they want to serve as. I don't know.

[39:03] Robert Samo: For what I saw with Supergirl, and I understand the heavy drinking and coping with the loss of your planet and your family and everything else, but it also very much felt from the portions that I saw was that she's buttermaker from the Bad News Bears that is trying to get the drinking under control in order to be the superhero. And that's the way it came across to me. It was like Bad News Bears meets Supergirl.

[39:28] David: Yeah, I don't know. That sounds great. But I think that sounds great to me. I don't know.

[39:31] Robert Samo: We get a baseball game at the end of it.

[39:35] David: Yeah, maybe they should have leaned into the Bad News Bears part of that a little bit more. Now, I still want to see it. I don't want to judge it without having seen too much. But I think overall, the reason that we're seeing that the box office numbers, the failure of the box office is because, you know, they're making assumptions about an audience and those assumptions are incorrect.

[39:53] John: I feel like there was also a laziness that's gotten into Hollywood in the sense that in the early Marvel universe, the early MCU, they had to sell you on every movie. This is the one where it's like, it's going to be more of a political thriller, you know, or this is the one that's going to be a heist movie, or, you know, this one's whatever. And at a certain point, it was just like, oh, this is the one with, you know, it's the same story as Iron Man, but he's a magic guy.

[40:17] Robert Samo: I will tell you this, since we brought out Snow White. I call Iron Man the Snow White of the MCU because Snow White set the tone for all the princess movies and they all someday my prince will come versions and have woodland creatures that help him. Iron Man set it up and then Thor won and everything after that except I'd say Captain America followed that Iron Man Snow White model. So Iron Man is the Snow White of the MCU. I love it. Yeah I'm buying that.

[40:48] David: I feel like we should get back some comic book stuff right before we get off here. There's one thing I want to ask you guys about. So I'm a big fan of Jae Lee, the artist. He's cover artists primarily these days. And so I've followed his career for quite some time, all the way back to his days on Namor. And so he's got a new book out and it's called Monster Racing League. And the first edition came out and I read it. Gorgeous art. I couldn't love it more. And the coloring by Jun Chung is just beautiful. They're married, right? Jae Lee and Anyway, beautiful synergy there in beautiful art. And the story was by another couple, Lily and Robert Windham. And I was like, who the heck are they? It made me curious. So I did a little digging because I was like, is this the first like series of interior art that Jay Lee has done at Image since Hellshark back in the '90s? And as it turns out, it is not. Jay Lee did come back to Image a few years ago with a comic book called Seven Sons. And the writer on Seven Sons is also Robert Windham. And I was like, okay, what is going on here? Then I looked at the copyrights for these and Robert Windham owns the copyright for Seven Sons and he owns the copyright for Monster Racing League. So my question is, how do you feel about that? The Jay Lee is returned to his image comics roots. The creator owns capital of comics, image comics, and Jay Lee's basically working for a page rate.

[42:16] John: Well, everybody's got their things they need. - And you need a network? - Yeah, I guess. Like, I mean, it seems like an amicable relationship. He doesn't feel like he's getting exploited 'cause he's back for another one and pulling out the stops on the art. There is this part where it's like, you know, like there are people that are doing projects 'cause they love it and they're taking a chance on it. And then there's, you know, the same people might do a different project and, you know, it's for the paycheck and sometimes you can tell the difference or whatever. But this, the page layouts were so clever and unlike stuff he'd done before and interesting and following what the story is like, you know, it feels like a racing thing, you know, like these jaggy things. I don't know, but it looks like there's luck going into it. Yeah, I don't know. Whatever Jay and June want to do, I guess, good for them.

[43:02] Robert Samo: Sometimes the passion project's worth more than the bigger paycheck. And if it's his creator-owned stuff or he owns the rights to it, it's going to mean more to him. It could be that. It does.

[43:12] John: That's the thing. Like the copyrights totally on the writer's side. I think, I think it's somebody just paying him, you know, just paying a page. I don't, I don't have any like super inside knowledge. I mean, Jay, he gave me, he gave me a copy of the previous one, but that's like my,

[43:25] David: I didn't like grill him on, on the business.

[43:29] Robert Samo: Why are you doing this, Jay? I didn't get a chance to look at that one, but I'm just happy for anybody that has a job that is working at this point.

[43:36] David: Yeah. Okay. That's a good thing. I don't think it bothers me. I just wanted to see if there was any controversy we had here. I don't think it bothers me that much, but I guess it's a little frustrating that Jay Lee, the dude is like a top 10 talent in the industry. And I love the idea that he's working at image and sort of doing his own thing. So it's a little frustrating in that, you know, he's sort of doing it for a paycheck instead of doing it for something that he owns. That's his decision. That's a thing that he can and should do. And if he wants to take a paycheck instead of, you know, taking an ownership stake in something then, then God bless him. Ultimately, Robert, I think I'm with you. As long as people are getting paid, like in comic books, God bless them.

[44:15] John: - And we don't know the back end, like, gee, love it.

[44:17] Robert Samo: - There was also the rumor that one of the big two wasn't paying their artists for a little while, so. - Yeah, I think that was more than a rumor.

[44:23] David: - Yeah.

[44:24] Robert Samo: - I am saying that, so I don't get, you know, the back end from them. - I had no idea since. - I think the past tense was a rumor, but all right. - We want them to be successful, and if he's getting paid, I am very happy for him. And his artistic style has always been gorgeous, So the fact that he can put a little more of his own pizzazz and style into it and not go, "Oh, you know what? That's the wrong shade of yellow or that's the wrong shade of purple." Go for it, man.

[44:50] John: In between this comic and whatever the previous J. Lee comic I read, I read a bunch of his old Namor comics. Man, I love those. Those are so good and so much fun. I was like reading these and I'm like, I almost like miss that like 19-year-old J. Lee, who's like so industrial aggressive, you know, in this stuff. Like you forget like how sort of poetic his stuff becomes later and almost like lyrical in the way you draw stuff. That it was like the most aggressive art you were gonna find. Yeah. Just razor blades ripping the pages apart. Yeah. These shapes, you know, one of the covers is a fist going into a guy's face, you know. And it's like a lot of stuff like that. But then when I read this, I'm like, oh man, but I love Jay Lee now. Obviously, he's a better artist now. He certainly knows how to draw more, but I think I like every era of Jay Lee. I just love that guy.

[45:41] David: I think I'm with you, John. There's the garage band feel to his early work that is just so appealing to me. I love that. I love that seeing the artist getting on the journey and going from a certain level of composition and just escalating and all that. And it's a good way to put it. He's poetic. It's lyrical the way his art is now. I love it. It's beautiful. I highly recommend Monster Racing League number one. Story be damned. And the story is actually fun too. But the artwork alone and the panel layout, the page layouts are on next level. Like the stuff he's thinking through is just gorgeous and beautiful and really smart. Highly recommend it. But it is also sort of like mourn that like

[46:24] Robert Samo: grungy garage style that he came up with in his early days. Real quick, is the cover the one where It's the the blonde girl almost dressed like Bruce Lee in a game of death. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay I saw that cover that thing's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. She's got some sort of B theme I think going on

[46:40] David: They don't really explicitly talk about it too much But I have a feeling that theme is gonna play a part at least in her design moving forward. It's great story. It's super fun It's some fun little characters you focus on two young women who are Become fast friends fairly quickly in a very charming way The dialogue is really good and then it jumps right into a fun action-paced sort of finale for the first issue I'm totally in on it. It's on my poll list for sure Well Robert I feel like we've kind of held you hostage for maybe long enough

[47:16] Robert Samo: No, it was fun. I'm off the wall on this one. I was like, I thought I'm a part of the conversation. So I'm happy if you guys want to know what I just recently read It was the new Solomon Kane comic from Titan. The Lion aired by Patrick Zertcher. I thought the story and the art was fantastic in that. I mean, it's absolutely gorgeous. It almost looks like a rotoscoping in the artistic design of it.

[47:39] David: - So you picked the right thing to talk about because Funtime Go, my company, we work for Herog signatures. We handle all of their archive material. So we have the opportunity to see a lot of stuff before it gets out into the wider world. And patch is just crushing it with the, I think he's truly inspired on this, on this Solomon Kane stuff. Like, I think it's specifically his jam and specifically a thing that he loves and wants to do, and it's really showing in the work that he's been doing lately, so glad to hear you like it.

[48:06] Robert Samo: Fantastic. And I was never big on the Solomon Kane character. I was like, Oh, it's Conan in the, you know, in the revolutionary America or pioneer, whatever it was, you know, Plymouth, whatever era America.

[48:17] David: So I'm not a big Solomon Kane fan either. Didn't really hit, but I'm fully in on these stories. I'm buying it, even though I get them for free. I'm still going out to the comic book shop and picking up a copy for myself. What? You got to support, John.

[48:29] Robert Samo: Yeah. You got to go to local shops. I'll still go into the local shop when I can.

[48:32] John: Way back when Fraction was doing Casanova, like I was talking to him, I told him how much I loved it. And he was like, Oh, I'll put you on the comp list. So I get on the comp list for just Casanova, right? If you remember Casanova, it was like 16 or 24 pages. It wasn't even as thick as a regular comic. So I get a box like three weeks after the comic came out this big with a crushed up Casanova inside, which I had by that point, obviously already bought because it was also only $2. Like it was like in every way the cheapest comic to buy. So before they became $5 a pop.

[49:06] David: There's one other thing I want to talk about today, but I'm pivoting because this reminds me of just talking about supporting comic book shops. Guess what, John, this week, Bad Rock number one hit the comic book shops.

[49:16] John: Oh yeah, no, I bought it. Yeah.

[49:18] David: Hell yeah, baby. So guess what? So I had already preordered my copy. I got all the covers, right? Oh, boy. Every version of the Bad Rock cover. I get all my books from Challengers Comics in Chicago, Robert. But I'd like order them online, and they ship them to me. Fantastic service. They do a great job.

[49:32] Robert Samo: Isn't there five covers coming out for the August issue?

[49:36] David: There's at least five covers. I don't know. I click the button for all of them, and just make sure that they all show up. I may have bought two of the main covers. On top of that, I saw on Instagram that Seth Demus, who's the artist for Bad Rock number one. So I already bought the Ashcan that Rob Liefeld signed. I already bought the Ashcan of it, like on his, on his whatnot, I already bought that. Or maybe it was from his website. So I had the Ashcan already signed by Robert, but I saw that there was this comic book store, wherever Seth is, I think it's somewhere in Michigan, or maybe it's Ohio. Anyway, on Instagram, they were like, "Oh, Seth Demus is signing today at the store. He's coming in and we're gonna do some set And maybe he'll do a couple of remarks. I immediately instant messaged the guy, the owner of the shop. I was like, Oh my God, please. If there's any way that I can get a signed copy, I'm happy to like, pay a premium for it if you get, and he's like, well, you're in luck. We've got two signed and I got two, uh, with remarks on it. Which one do you want? I'm might've got them all trying.

[50:33] John: Oh boy.

[50:34] David: So I'm out here supporting the comic book shots. John.

[50:36] John: All right. I guess that's what you're doing.

[50:40] David: And then I followed up with, if he comes into the shop and signs copies of issue two, three, and four, please let me know. So I think I got the inside track on Seth the newest John. - Very excited. - Robert, it was lovely having you on the show today. It's interesting for you to not be the host of the show.

[50:58] Robert Samo: - It's very unique for me to be on this side of the conversation and not ask a million questions.

[51:03] David: - Robert, anything else you want to talk about? You want to plug some stuff here? Is this a great opportunity to do that?

[51:07] Robert Samo: - You know, I really appreciate you guys having me on that we can crack some jokes and enjoy each other's company with this and you know talk about comics and movies and whatever else. I'm still at fanboy nation, fanboynation.com. A little more mainstream. I got on the reels, on the reels.com. All socials are still at fanboy nation, Twitter X, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. So if you guys want to hit me up and talk about stuff, crack some jokes and actually have a sense of humor. I'm down to talk whatever with you guys.

[51:34] David: Yeah, I think this is the first time we've talked about movies on the show in a more meaningful way

[51:39] Robert Samo: So that was kind of fun gonna be at San Antonio Film Festival. So we're doing the big crossover between it apparently

[51:44] David: Thank you. Once again fanboy nation comm folks go check them out Really appreciate Robert's support with my last project and it was a lovely having run the show. We had a great time Thank you so much. And I think that is all for us today our good friends and listeners. Thank you for joining the show Thanks for coming on. Listen to us. Give us a shot. We always appreciate and enjoy having you here See you next Tuesday on the on the corner box. We're not taking any breaks John. Yeah, that wasn't a joke

[52:13] John: He doesn't know what he did there. Oh, what did I do? See you later Bye everybody

[52:22] Announcer: This has been the corner box with David and John Please take a moment and give us a five-star rating. It really helps. And join us again next week for another dive into the wonderful world of comics.