The Corner Box

Avengers, Adams, and Aliens on The Corner Box - S4Ep5

• David & John • Season 4 • Episode 5

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0:00 | 1:03:42

David Hedgecock returns from Hawaii with a stack of classic Avengers under his belt, a newfound appreciation for Roy Thomas, and an obsession with Harlan Ellison's completely bonkers two-part adventure spanning Avengers #88 and Incredible Hulk #140. Between Sal Buscema's underrated storytelling, Neal Adams's spectacular artwork, and a Hulk romance that practically forgets Betty Ross exists, Marvel's Bronze Age is looking better—and stranger—than ever. Meanwhile, John Barber rewinds to the late 1980s to explore how Dark Horse Comics used Aliens and Predator to transform licensed comics from movie adaptations into ambitious new stories that helped build a publishing empire. Along the way, the guys revisit Mark Verheiden's storytelling, Mark A. Nelson's jaw-dropping alien artwork, the origins of The Mask, and the spectacular continuity mess Alien 3 dumped on Dark Horse's doorstep. It's a creator-first celebration of bold ideas, brilliant artists, questionable Hollywood decisions, and the glorious chaos that happens when comics refuse to stay inside the lines.

Captions:

[01:32] — The Avengers Issue Nobody Talks About — "People need to talk about issue 93 of Avengers way more than anybody talks about it." — David Hedgecock. David makes the case for a spectacular, oversized Bronze Age Avengers issue featuring Neal Adams, Tom Palmer, and an unforgettable journey inside the Vision.

[13:00] — Harlan Ellison Had Too Many Ideas — "Here's 50 ideas. And Roy Thomas is like, all of them? Like all of the ideas on 22 pages?" — David Hedgecock. David marvels at the sheer creative insanity of Ellison's Avengers #88, where seemingly every superhero, science-fiction concept, and bizarre plot twist gets thrown into one comic.

[22:41] — When the Avengers Finally Got Good — "Avengers doesn't get good until Roy Thomas starts writing it." — John Barber. John delivers a blunt assessment of Marvel's early Avengers and explains how Thomas transformed a sometimes awkward superhero team book into something far more compelling.

[33:05] — Does Every Movie Need a Franchise? — "And now we've entered this world where really everything is." — John Barber. John questions the modern obsession with expanding every successful movie into an endless universe of sequels, spinoffs, and licensed stories.

[39:15] — The Dark Horse Canon Controversy — "Yeah. And that was a flat out lie." — John Barber. John challenges the idea that Dark Horse's early Predator and Aliens comics were meaningful additions to official movie continuity, despite how exciting that promise felt to young readers.

[44:00] — Nobody Drew Aliens Better — "There's people that draw aliens as good as Mark Nelson, but nobody that draws it better." — John Barber. Revisiting Dark Horse's original Aliens series, John discovers that Mark A. Nelson's extraordinary creature artwork still delivers decades later.

[57:52] — Alien 3 Ruined the Victory — "The win state of Alien 3 is the lose state of Aliens." — John Barber. John unloads on the sequel's treatment of Hicks, Newt, and Ripley, arguing that its creative decisions effectively erase everything the characters fought to accomplish in Aliens.

Splash Page:

[00:27] — Aloha, Avengers, and the Bronze Age Renaissance: David returns from Hawaii and launches into his Avengers reading marathon, celebrating Roy Thomas, John and Sal Buscema, Tom Palmer, and Neal Adams.

[05:50] — Harlan Ellison Unleashes the Hulk: David explores the bizarre two-part adventure spanning Avengers #88 and Incredible Hulk #140, featuring Psyklop, Jarella, and enough wild ideas to fuel an entire series.

[20:54] — Roy Thomas and the Marvel Universe Machine: The guys examine how Thomas strengthened Avengers storytelling, connected Marvel continuity, and helped turn a collection of superheroes into a living, interconnected universe.

[29:35] — From Blade Runner to the Dark Horse Revolution: John shifts gears to movie franchises, licensed comics, and the creative opportunities that helped Dark Horse break into the industry's big leagues.

[38:21] — Predator, Publishing Power, and the Promise of Canon: David and John discuss how Dark Horse leveraged recognizable Hollywood properties to attract readers, win retailer attention, and establish itself as a major publisher.

[43:17] — Mark A. Nelson and the Art of Aliens: John revisits the original Dark Horse Aliens comics, examining Nelson's remarkable creature illustrations and Mark Verheiden's ambitious expansion of the movie's mythology.

[47:30] — The Mask, APA-5, and Dark Horse's Creative Roots: A detour through amateur press associations, Mike Richardson, Frank Miller, and the creators who helped shape Dark Horse's early identity.

[53:24] — Alien 3 vs. Comics Continuity: John examines how the movie's controversial decisions undermined the original Dark Horse storyline, forced character changes in later editions, and left fans with one enormous continuity headache.

Support the Corner Box:

David Hedgecock (https://funtimego.com) - The Corner Box Co-Host

John Barber (https://www.pugworldwide.com) - The Corner Box Co-Host

The Corner Box (https://www.thecornerbox.club) - Official Website


Dive Deeper Into the Back Issue Bin:

Harlan Ellison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_Ellison) - Legendary science-fiction writer whose outrageous plot for Avengers #88 and Incredible Hulk #140 sends the Hulk into a microscopic world, introduces Jarella, and gives Roy Thomas more ideas than any reasonable comic should contain.

Roy Thomas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Thomas) - Marvel writer and editor whose work on The Avengers transformed the series through stronger characterization, intricate subplots, and interconnected continuity. David makes a serious case for Thomas belonging among his all-time favorite comic writers.

Neal Adams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Adams) - Influential comic book artist whose spectacular work on Avengers #93 leaves David practically speechless, particularly the extraordinary sequences featuring Ant-Man exploring the Vision's internal anatomy.

John Buscema (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Buscema) - Legendary Marvel artist whose Avengers pencils, particularly when paired with Tom Palmer's inks, represent a major artistic turning point in David's Bronze Age reading marathon.

Sal Buscema (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Buscema) - Prolific Marvel artist whose work on Avengers #88 earns fresh appreciation from David, especially his storytelling, anatomy, and later experiments with inking his own pencils.

Tom Palmer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Palmer_(comics)) - Acclaimed inker whose collaborations with John Buscema and Neal Adams demonstrate how the right artistic partnership can completely transform a comic's finished appearance.

Herb Trimpe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Trimpe) - Classic Hulk artist whose work on Incredible Hulk #140 sends David down another creative rabbit hole, including a reassessment of Trimpe's dramatically different 1990s artwork on Fantastic Four Unlimited.

Mark Verheiden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Verheiden) - Writer behind Dark Horse's groundbreaking Aliens comics, whose ambitious storytelling expanded the movies' mythology while introducing new narrative twists. John also traces his career back to the influential amateur press association APA-5.

Mark A. Nelson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_A._Nelson) - Artist of Dark Horse's original Aliens series, whose detailed creature illustrations and distinctive Duo-Shade technique earn enormous praise from John, even as he examines the limitations of the book's other artwork.

Chris Warner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Warner_(comics)) - Comic book artist whose striking original Predator cover helped convince a young David that Dark Horse's new licensed comics were something worth getting excited about.

Denis Beauvais (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Beauvais) - Artist associated with the painted follow-up to Dark Horse's original Aliens miniseries, part of the early publishing history John plans to explore further.

Sam Kieth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Kieth) - Distinctive comic book artist whose work on Aliens: Earth War is great!